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Reality Capture: Benefits, Workflows, and How to Get Started!

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Description

This class will demonstrate various reality capture strategies and use cases in different architecture, engineering, and construction project phases. We'll focus both on strategies that can be implemented in-house as well as options for integrating outsourced deliverables into in-house workflows. We have integrated point clouds from laser scans and unmanned autonomous systems (UAS) photogrammetry, and we'll show our workflows and results. We'll talk about the setup process for attaining accurate shared coordinates for automated GPS placement within Revit software. We'll also demonstrate how we created and implemented affordable UAS photogrammetric scans into our Revit workflows, and how they compare to laser scan point clouds. This class will showcase several case study projects in which we used laser and photogrammetric scans for various needs, ranging from developing design concepts for small residential additions to new large-scale health care projects and multimillion-dollar departmental relocations inside existing facilities.

Key Learnings

  • Understand the time and cost benefits of using reality capture
  • Understand the differences between various types of reality capture in the AEC industry
  • Develop workflows to accurately integrate laser scans into Revit and improve project accuracy
  • Learn how to implement appropriate reality capture deliverables for the corresponding project use case

Speakers

  • Avatar for Marin Pastar
    Marin Pastar
    Marin is a Registered Architect and Innovation & Technology expert. He started his professional career 20 years ago as a technical production architect and a project manager. Through his personal practice and project experience, he realized how disjointed the Design and Construction industry is, and the vast amount of room for process improvement. As a result of his efforts to connect the AEC industry and improve his own projects, his career evolved towards Technology & Innovation. Throughout his career, he led all aspects of Project Delivery from Design, Visualization and VR/AR, Reality Capture and UAS systems, to streamlining AEC Workflows from Planning, Design and Construction, into Facility Management and Operations. He is a strong advocate for the Owners, striving to eliminate the costly duplication of efforts in project execution. In his current role at Jacobs, Marin focuses on leveraging his extensive AECO industry experience to help global project teams discern project technology & innovation constraints and opportunities. He is passionate about developing the most suitable project execution strategies that leverage advanced Virtual Design & Construction tools and workflows in innovative ways to help streamline the Design/Construction delivery, and achieve a digital handover of the Built Environment suitable for enhancing the Owner Asset Lifecycle Workflows through succesful implementation of Digital Twins.
  • Aaron Gipperich
    I have always leaned toward the technology side of Architecture.When the industry was transitioning to Revit, I went from leaning to diving in. In 2008, I was a driving force in successfully transitioning a 100 person Architectural firm to the Revit workflow.This was the start of the journey in BIM Management, and today I’m fortunate to manage the BIM systems for an architectural firm that doesn’t aim to push boundaries, but break through them entirely.From developing new Virtual Reality workflows to Integrated Project Delivery with Facilities Management deliverables.Autodesk recognized Bates as “Early Technology Adopters” and produced a customer success story published at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meJ2t3BSeR4.I am a Revit Certified Professional and have spoken at several AGC conferences on BIM Topics.As a regular presenter and steering committee member for the St. Louis Revit Users Group, I actively support the St. Louis Revit community across numerous disciplines.
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Transcript

MARIN PASTAR: All right, guys. I think I've got 2:15, so I'd say in just in time. Let's go ahead and get started. Thank you so much for coming over on a Thursday afternoon at 2:15. That's pretty impressive. I'm glad to see such a big crowd. We hope to give a good presentation for you guys-- some of the things that we have been working on.

So this is the Reality Capture class on the Benefits, Workflows and how to get started. Some of the learning objectives that we're going to be talking about from the class-- we want to make sure that you understand the time and cost benefits of leveraging reality capture into your workflows, understanding the differences between various types of reality capture in the industry.

We'll talk about workflows to integrate laser scans and drone scans and different things into your workflows. And how to make sure they're using the right tools for the right job. The overall agenda, how the class is structured, we'll talk about first why use reality capture. We'll talk about how to get started.

[PHONE RINGING]

[LAUGHS]

We'll talk about--

AARON GIPPERICH: Calling your laser scanner. [INAUDIBLE]

MARIN PASTAR: We'll talk about the different systems and technologies that are available on this very large ecosystem that keeps growing. We'll talk about some of the workflows and use cases of how we leverage it, and we'll talk about some of the case studies.

AARON GIPPERICH: Just for [INAUDIBLE] and show of hands, how many people in here are using reality capture in some capacity-- laser scanning-- most of you. How many here own a laser scanner? Quite a few. All right. Excellent.

MARIN PASTAR: Awesome.

AARON GIPPERICH: So just to let you know, we are keeping this class fairly high level. We're not diving too far into the weeds on any particular topic. So just let you know, if you're coming here hoping for the in-depth tech solutions or the tricks nobody knows about, this is not your class. So I'll just let you know upfront. Again, high level, just really showing what we've done.

And also just to preface, we are architects and end users of laser scans. We are not doing them ourselves, especially with LiDAR. So we're more of the end users rather than the person you call to procure a high quality LiDAR scan, so.

MARIN PASTAR: So a little bit about us. My name is Marin Pastar. I'm a principal architect and a director of innovation technology at Bates where we were a small architectural company, not that long ago, that leverage technologies and really became a company about 20-- about 10-- 15,000 size that we were six years ago.

AARON GIPPERICH: Yeah, and Aaron Gipperich, I'm the BIM manager. I've been with Bates about 2 and 1/2 years. Prior to Bates, I was a BIM manager for a architectural firm about 100 that specialized in education, K through 12, higher ed, and coming to Bates with a focus on health care. It's been eye-opening how the use of tech and when where it's going.

MARIN PASTAR: So just very briefly about Bates. Like I said, we've been in business for 45 years, headquartered in Springfield, Missouri. But up until six years ago we were a company of eight people. And through leveraging technologies and connecting the workflows in the entire industry, we really grew our organization from a small eight person firm to a three office, 115 architect firm that we are today. And really expanded through leveraging technology.

We do a majority-- majority of projects are health care projects. But we have a pretty large sector for commodity architecture, for hospitality. And it really became obvious to us with the time frames that we're given on projects that we need to be much, much more accurate in how we leverage technology and how we kick projects off. So we-- I have another class I'm teaching later on today, believe it or not-- I thought this was the last class.

But on how we truly leverage technology and innovation to increase this [INAUDIBLE] between entire industry, to reduce the duplication of effort of how long it takes to do something, and streamline facility management operations. And I was really glad-- I don't know how many of you went to the very first keynote, but the more better less-- I mean this is really, exactly tied to that. How do you really streamline what you do because we have to do much, much more, and much better quality with much less resources and much less time. So this class is going to follow that along the way.

So this process that we created, we call it enhanced integration. And we integrate a lot of technologies together. And this video kind of showcases a lot of the things that we do on our projects.

AARON GIPPERICH: Yeah, enhanced integration really, at its core, when we talk with our clients, we focus heavily on the technology with it. But it's also asking the questions of making sure the client knows the right information to make the best decisions for the lifecycle of their projects. So at the end, everybody always hears about the magic bullet of facilities management deliverables, which is kind of the holy grail, the unicorn, whatever, of the industry. But we start at the beginning with it.

And so that even starts-- big part of that process is reality capture and just getting accurate existing conditions of their facility that we can take. Because we take that through our visualization process, obviously through construction documents, through construction collaboration, and just getting the facility built. But it does start from the beginning.

So this particular project was one-- a big hospital addition that the Mercy Hospital Jefferson in Missouri. And this was actually the first project we ever got a reality-- LiDAR reality capture laser scan of the interior-- I'm sorry, the exterior on. And this is a project that's actually getting ready to finish construction-- what, December this year?

MARIN PASTAR: Yeah.

AARON GIPPERICH: And will be occupied. So this has been a great case study. And we learned a lot through starting with this project.

MARIN PASTAR: So the interesting part of this is what enhanced integration for us really means. The entire workflow that we have created, we actually created with the end in mind. The end for us-- the end for this particular owner is turnover facility data into operations and maintenance. And the in order to do that, we had to really go in the very, very front and make sure that we are-- we're moving at that speed of light, number one. So speed of design and accuracy is paramount.

So laser scanning was really the only option we could get started with this project and how we got started with it. But then accuracy, because we're developing all these fabrication models, all these animations, everything we do inside them-- inside the models themselves, the model is the one source of truth. And the only way to do that is to have very accurate, not only existing conditions of what is there before we started, but along the way, in construction verification. Making sure that absolutely every step of the way is very accurate. Because the next guy that goes in there, he's developing his workflows and his projects and his products directly from the models.

So virtual reality, too, again, it's very related. We can show an accurate VR model unless I have an accurate depiction of what I started with. So reality capture really enabled us to show very, very high quality virtual reality in our projects. And that's truly important because at the end, I need to turn over as built models and data. In order to do so, I need to make sure that that stays applicable throughout the entire time.

If all those models are going to stay fairly unchanged and be maintained throughout the construction process, the owners need to understand exactly what they're going to get. So it's all very intertwined together in this workflow of what we do. This was actually the very first laser scan that we got, the point cloud of the existing [INAUDIBLE] campus that we had zero documentation about what was currently out there on site.

AARON GIPPERICH: Absolutely. And follow up on that comment about zero documentation on site, this is a project the owner is actually looking at having to go back and do additional scanning. We only did an exterior laser scan of this facility. But, again, this is a very large hospital.

Their current CAD drawings that they have for floor plans are not accurate. So at the time when we did this exterior scan, there really wasn't a budget or a feasible way to go in and scan, what, 500, 600 plus rooms. Patients are in rooms, it is just-- it was obtrusive to go in with a tripod-based scanner, let it sit there for five minutes. It just never happened.

Some new advancements in that technology with handheld laser scanning devices, we're actually looking at going back here-- probably just in the next several weeks. And all the areas that we actually were not working on, which is a big-- large part of this building, we're going to walk through and scan and bring that information back into our Revit model and ultimately give the owner a accurate as built of their entire building, not just the part we worked on.

MARIN PASTAR: So what you're seeing here is a lot of different technologies that we use. We started-- we started with just a exterior scan, but we did a lot of drone scanning, with drone verification for construction verification, everything about that transparency, bringing this information to everybody who is working with that information ever step along the way.

We actually subsequently-- after we scanned the exterior of the hospital we got the interior scans and a lot of different things off of the central energy plant and the-- kind of really tying it all together. We just wanted to show this-- it's a five minute video. Just like I said, a lot of different various technologies that are enabled on one singular project of how we bring it all together and bring the entire formally distributed in silo teams together under one roof.

I say under one roof. We are only an architectural company. We just so happen to really work on the BIM VDC realm quite a bit and dictate the VDC workflows of the entire system. But it's very interconnected. That the contractors and subcontractors that are nowadays modeling fr-- with us in the models. They need that level of accuracy and information to be able to put a good quality project together, that's going together very, very smoothly.

This project was very complicated. There are a lot of innovation areas. And because we had a lot of that existing information in there, that this quality level, the construction process really went-- I would say surprisingly easy. But when we put that much effort in the very beginning, it's really not surprising that you come up with a much better final product with much less change orders, much less RFIs, and everybody's, like I said, working from that one source of truth.

So we're going to kick it off after that intro video into those agenda items. Why do we use reality capture, what are some of the use cases. Again, you guys seems like you're very, very savvy about reality capture. We never know exactly who's going to be in our class when we are planning it, but we kind of go through some of the use cases.

AARON GIPPERICH: Yeah, so just some of the big reasons to use it. One, this ties in with the next slide, but time and cost savings. So many of our projects now, they're becoming fast-track. Owners want it sooner, cheaper, all of the above, and they're looking to us for ways to make that happen.

So we're finding for many of these facilities that we're doing, obviously, there are additions to existing campuses or buildings, so a laser scan just-- or reality capture in general makes the most sense to capture this information. And it is faster and it is cheaper. And from what we found, anybody who would say even just a few years ago that, ah, we can't afford a laser scan, you know they're renting it, hiring out is just too much money. Go send a couple of interns with tape measures out there, and measure it.

MARIN PASTAR: See how long that takes you.

AARON GIPPERICH: See how long that takes. And there is equipment now, available that you can rent for what the cost of an intern on site for one day would be. And one person can go out there with that equipment, and get an accurate scan that's going to get you data accurate to within a quarter of an inch. And you're going to measure more, better, and faster than two people will.

So the argument of it costs too much doesn't fly anymore.

MARIN PASTAR: For us, it was a no-brainer. On this project, the owner said, OK, here's a $140 million expansion, a patient tower edition to this project, and it's 2015, late 2015 now, and we are going to start seeing patients in 2018.

AARON GIPPERICH: Yeah.

MARIN PASTAR: OK, so we need to be fully existing conditions all the way right now. So we had no other choice than jump into laser scanning, and we hired our laser scan, and really model existing conditions from it. Much faster than tape measure.

AARON GIPPERICH: [INAUDIBLE] to, it just-- it leads into cost savings. Like we said, it's going to be faster, you're going to get more information. You're also going to capture information that you really couldn't feasibly do on site just with traditional methods. In a lot of overhead systems, just lighting things that you really can't see and get up to. Yeah, you might be able to document that it's there. But as far as an accurate measurement, you're not going to get that. You just capture so much more with the scan. I mean, you know, piping, sealing systems, you get everything. It's not just coming back with a measured floor plan and a drive full of pictures that you can go look at to see what was there. You're truly going to get it accurate.

MARIN PASTAR: Coordinating those systems along the way and really integrating those workflows and verifying the as build demo data to really save a lot of change orders down the road rather than making assumptions and going with it. And then in construction you find out, oh well, it's really not where we thought it was. Planning those workflows along the way to implement laser scanning at meaningful times.

Of course, accuracy, you know, accuracy is paramount. So when we start with a massive project, this is a different project we did subsequently of adding this entire patient tower in here. We inherited the existing conditions model from somebody else, and I didn't want to trust it. I know they did a good job on the design-- former architect did. But I want to scan the entire existing conditions.

I didn't-- we didn't scan it. We hired out a scan of existing conditions. And $10,000 later and three days later, I had in a point cloud of the entire existing conditions, exterior including all the roof penetrations and everything on the site. There's no way I could have done that. And lo and behold, the model that we inherited from somebody else was inaccurate.

And we went ahead and we adjusted the model to match the existing conditions because, again, the owner likes to make promises to community, hey, we're going to see patients in a few years. And you architects and engineers and contractors, you figure out how to do it. Technology.

AARON GIPPERICH: Mm-hmm.

MARIN PASTAR: And the project transparency, like I said. You know, drones has become-- starting to become a big part of what we do. And, like, you know, the owners don't necessarily make it out to site all the time. The owners reps do. But the ones that really make the decisions, that the stakeholders, the ministry leaders, and all that, they don't have the luxury of being on site to inspect what it looks like.

So what we do is, during construction process, at least once or twice per month, we'll go in and we'll do drone flyovers with [INAUDIBLE] interior, exterior videos. We put videos together. We actually hired a videographer in-house that helps us produce a lot of videos to showcase exactly where the project is. And, again, we want projects going down the best path possible. And if one of the ministry leaders, even the reconstruction, sees something they don't like, well, I'd rather find out sooner rather than later then something else gets built that's not built correctly.

We want to make sure that we're transparent to absolutely everybody along the way. And this kind of showcases because we did laser scan things, how accurate the build condition versus the existing condition-- the model condition was.

AARON GIPPERICH: Yeah, and just to add, besides the transparency and what you get out of that, clients eat that stuff up. They see that, they just-- they love it. So, I mean, you earn a lot of points on that side as well.

MARIN PASTAR: So on the collaboration side, it really improves collaboration between teams. Like I said, we are very intertwined in how we do our workflows. We let our engineers of record design through about 100% design development, but then we want our construction team to come in and finish that modeling for the engineer because they're pushing it much further into fabrication models and all that. So along the way, in the very complicated projects, it's very difficult to understand what's going to be left over after you demo out the space. So--

AARON GIPPERICH: Yeah, and from a collaboration standpoint, this type of data is invaluable because this is something-- the minute you get this, this can be distributed to a team and be used by the architects, the engineers, your construction team. They can plug this in. Point clouds work with practically every software that we use, at least when it comes to data authoring.

So everybody can start working on these, verifying existing conditions right away. There's no more waiting for it to come down the pipeline of, well, the architect has to update the plan. Once they do that, the engineer can then start looking at what's overhead and updating that. Everybody can start on it at the same time and just start plugging it in and going. And so collaboration is enhanced and the speed just increases tremendously from it.

MARIN PASTAR: And reality capture let's you do a lot more of enhanced deliverables too. You know, even the smallest of reality capture-- reality capture's very broad. We'll talk about the devices and all that. But 360 cameras are reality capture. 360 photos are reality capture.

So this is really-- for our big projects that we manage, all this asset data, and [INAUDIBLE], and everything else, and all the turnover-- makes sense we're going to have as built models and everything else. But even for the owners that don't do really much of anything, to give them 360 photos that we required the contractors to do along the way-- tell them, hey, here's a map in HoloBuilder that we can build for practically nothing, and give you a floor plan with a 360 photo of a raw framing before the walls and ceilings are closed in. That will truly-- that truly helps the owners out quite a bit.

And it's super easy to do. I mean, I got a 360 camera for free when I broke my phone. And that's the cameras that these are being used for. So it's very, very democratized, and it can be very helpful in the overall process.

AARON GIPPERICH: And I'd advocate the 360 cameras, the context we're showing them in these videos is largely for construction. Any of you out there who regularly go to the site or do building walk throughs, even-- architects you have a client that you're trying to get this job, and they have an open house walk through the facility, go with the 360 camera. Because being able to get images like this is so much more powerful than going out there with your phone or other camera.

And then you come back and you're putting the proposal together. And somebody says, did you get that shot? No, I didn't look that way. These get everything. This is a camera you should just leave in your bag the whole time no matter where you're going. They are awesome.

MARIN PASTAR: Super simple to use but very, very effective. And then, how do you get started with this? You probably all have a license. Well, you guys already started. Some-- I'm not preaching to the choir here-- before we started. I knew when we open up ReCap a million times, and said, what's this? It's in my suite, but what do I do with it?

I honestly-- we-- it took us a while to get our first point cloud because access to point cloud data was very difficult at that time, so. You really just need to jump in, and the first thing is identifying the need. What do you need to do? What are you trying to achieve?

AARON GIPPERICH: Yeah.

MARIN PASTAR: Go ahead.

AARON GIPPERICH: Yeah, no. I was saying, and those are the questions to ask. Obviously, don't just go and get a point cloud blindly. And then once you have it say, OK, great, we got a point cloud. Now what?

Look at your project and evaluate what makes sense to use a point cloud for because everybody just thinks a point cloud is existing conditions, which it is. That's the most common use for it. But there's so much more beyond that, which we'll show that we can-- that they can be used for. There's a lot of levels of it.

MARIN PASTAR: For us, like I said, the first project was, here's this campus that this new health system purchased and have no documentation about, and we have to produce a massive project in a very short amount of time frame. So for us, it was a no-brainer to really jump in and start using laser scanning.

And again, you need to figure out what you really want to do with the point clouds.

AARON GIPPERICH: Yup.

MARIN PASTAR: Because that's going to dictate a lot.

AARON GIPPERICH: Absolutely. And actionable data, getting something out of it that we can act upon and get benefits from. So, you want to touch on the--

MARIN PASTAR: So this was that scan that we originally received that, again, you live and learn. The first time where we had a laser scan done, we didn't know what to request from the scanning company. So we said, OK, well, we know we need an RCS file because we did a little research, and Revit works well with RCS ReCap file. So, yeah, we need one of those, and we want it to be color, and we want all the existing conditions of the exterior. And we want it to be a georeference so we can load it into our models, which we'll touch on in a little while.

But for the first scan we didn't even get the rooftops. And once we got the scan, like, drat, I wish I would have asked for rooftops too. And it was a little bit more money. But to get up on the roofs and for them to scan it, but they did only ground level scanning. Still got us everything we needed, but we live and learn. And we requested more and more.

So thinking about what you need and communicating it well, and working with vendors if you're not doing in-house scanning, communicating with them the requirements up front is really important.

AARON GIPPERICH: It is. And something actually even just-- I've sat in several other reality capture classes here because I'm always anxious to learn more. Good tip I learned that we're going to implement when we get back is write a spec for your reality capture-- what you want, something you can give the vendor. It doesn't have to be long, it's not complex, but very good information to have to make sure you're getting what you need.

[INAUDIBLE] think it would've been nice to put in there. Obviously, we want the exterior, but we don't even think to ask about the rooftop. And when we got it back we just go, ah, that would've been nice. So simple documentation will go a long way.

MARIN PASTAR: One thing we really won't talk about too much but if you do notice that the transparent civil topo over here, you see a lot of lines in there. We actually used and hired out a ground [INAUDIBLE] radar to scan all of the underground utilities that we modeled and in Revit. Because again, we have no documentation, and just a civil survey on an active hospital site like this with a very complicated addition project, if they hit one utility line, it's a nightmare. And like I said, nobody knew what was there.

So we just hired out a [INAUDIBLE] radar, and a week later we've got a model of it that we can coordinate subsurface as we coordinate the above services above ceiling, so. We won't talk about it too much. We're going to focus on the above ground stuff in this project.

AARON GIPPERICH: Yes, and this is really kind of a by-product of the data once you have a construction coordination. Obviously, the design team, once you get those existing conditions, your design team should, as part of their diligence, be plugging those in and updating the Revit models or whatever software you're using to get existing conditions as accurate as possible. However, there's still-- we found there's a lot of things that we're not going to model.

For instance, I don't know of one MEP engineer that's modeling hangars on existing ductwork. This is great. You can plug this in, and if-- you can actually coordinate around those. So hangars, kickers, other things that aren't typically modeled. And it's simple to do. When you have it, plug it in, and this can be a part of your clash detection coordination during all of your construction coordination. So if you've got it, utilize it.

MARIN PASTAR: And then during construction, obviously, you use lasers scans for very, very high detail, high quality information over there. But during construction process, it's so easy to go out on site. If you've got a 100-acre site, fly a drone for 25 minutes, and you've got a full construction scan that during a construction meeting or OAC meetings and all that.

Everybody always talks about, oh, well, what's there? I don't really know. Well, I'm going to-- we'll have to come back to the next meeting because I have to go take a photo. You just show up with a drone scan at the project meeting, and all of a sudden everybody has all the information. Not only do you have lasers scanner-- or photogrammetry scan information that we usually process for a lot of the solution-- we'll talk about that in a little bit. But you also have the ability to click on every single location where we flew that drone, and you have aerial photography that are much higher quality than just the photogrammetry scan and all that.

So photos are reality capture as well. A lot of people forget about that. Very useful during a meeting, and the ability to just kind of turn the entire model around and talk about what's currently out there. Contractors usually do this, but again, we take the lead on all of our projects because a lot of folks we work with just don't implement in VDC projects, and we want to bring that to our owners. So we just took the initiative. We're really doing everything ourselves.

And visualization of projects too.

AARON GIPPERICH: Yeah, visualization is a huge use for it. Those of you in construction aren't really thinking that. But on the architectural engineering side, we found this is fantastic for gathering existing conditions. And these are cases where we've taken a simple either a drone scan or-- well, to this point it's really only been drone scans. But we've taken that, been able to plug that right into Revit, start modeling concepts from it, doing massing diagrams on top of it.

Again something where you'd have to go out and field measure traditionally then come back and build, we've gone out in an hour or less even, let the drone fly, loaded up to the cloud overnight. In the morning you come back with mesh data and point clouds. And you can then plug-in and start working. And individuals are actually very strong. Clients have been very receptive to it and like it. So from a visualization standpoint, it's been a great tool.

MARIN PASTAR: We'll show you a workflow hub file presenting virtual reality of existing conditions addition when they've been available without the drone scanning. We'll show you that in a little bit. And I'm facility management like we mentioned earlier. You know, you can use it very, very-- this is what an unfolded photo looks like, obviously a 360 photo.

It's very, very simple to do. And there's a lot of engines out there that process them. And it gives those-- gives everybody a very, very unique tool to understand what their facility looks like even before it was fully finished.

AARON GIPPERICH: And project scale-- this is one where-- what this really comes down to is depending on how big your project is, this is really going to dictate what type of capture you need to do. As Marin touched on, if you're looking to scan several hundred acres of a site, that's going to use a very different capture device than if you want to scan the inside of a central energy plant and pick up every pipe in there.

So a drone scan can pick up hundreds of acres in several hours where a scan of this quality from LiDAR and probably in that same amount of time you might be lucky to get 10,000 to 20,000 square feet of capture with it. So it's really looking at what are my needs and what tool makes the most sense. And on most projects, especially larger scale ones, you're going to use a combination of several. There isn't a one size fits all solution to this.

MARIN PASTAR: And that also leads to whether you do it in-house or outsource. What you have in-house capabilities, several of you own laser scanners and you probably know more about the capturing of the data with LiDAR than we do. But, again, we decided that it's really not feasible for us to buy very expensive scanning equipment, where it's very feasible to hire it out and then get the actionable data we can implement to our workflows.

AARON GIPPERICH: Yeah, absolutely. If you're not doing scans on a day-to-day basis, you know, if scanning is not part of your job, don't invest in the expensive equipment. Drones are very feasible to acquire. They're not that expensive. Some of even the tripod-based system-- there's another one-- that's about as far as I'd recommend taking. This one's called a Matterport, we'll touch on it.

But, yeah, your big Trimbles and your expensive LiDAR, don't bother. Hire it out.

MARIN PASTAR: When it comes to cost versus quality, what do you need to do with your scan? Back to question one. Do you need a high quality scan or will something less do?

So we'll kind of over you some of the scanning technologies. And this is a photogrammetry scan of the same project I showed earlier. The ecosystem, like I said, the ecosystem is growing every single day. I mean, you guys have seen the new things on the floor every single day of the expo here. There's a lot of different options for you.

Like I said, cost versus accuracy is very, very important. If you go through and you do photogrammetry scan and you're not taking my photos and all that, well, you're going to get this low melting of the buildings and all that. You probably don't want to start your existing conditions model from this because that's just not good enough.

AARON GIPPERICH: Yeah, I heard a term for that this week, actually, the melting marshmallow.

MARIN PASTAR: Yeah.

AARON GIPPERICH: The photogrammetry scan, when you don't get enough, and it's very true. And like with anything, higher accuracy usually has much higher cost. And in this case, it's exponential. You know, a scan of this type with a LiDAR system, $50,000 plus machine, that drone, a $1,000 machine.

MARIN PASTAR: But this was a critical construction. Again, this was a central energy plant of a hospital. And he can tell yourself there's just all kinds of piping and equipment and everything else is fully stacked. Nothing else would've done better here. You know, you just need to get a high millimeter accuracy scan that, again, I'll let the professional that does it all day every day. They'll do a much better job than I will. That's my decision. And just understanding what you need out of it.

AARON GIPPERICH: Yeah, so kind of starting from the bottom and working our way up, you touched on the 360 degree photos. These to me are a no-brainer. Just-- if you don't have one yet, get one.

These are awesome. They're super easy to use. They're inexpensive. I think that Gear 360, what are they, under $200? And like I said, you'll get them with a phone if you buy them.

The Theta is a little higher cost. It's in the $400 range, and I think they just released a higher res 4K version within the last month or two. But we've got the older version. It's been phenomenal. I can't wait to try the 4K one.

MARIN PASTAR: We've been using it for what, over two years now, I think, for existing conditions. It's just really a no-brainer.

AARON GIPPERICH: And these are ones you-- I'm sorry to cut you off there. These are ones you can really hand to anybody in your company. We had several folks in our office, about six months ago had to go measure a small interior shell, not big enough to do laser scanning on, but they'd never used one of these. I just handed it to them, said, here, go out there. Wherever you're standing, push the button. When you get back I'll show you how to use it.

And when it came back, they just thought it was the coolest thing ever. And they took about 50 photos and heavily used them.

MARIN PASTAR: When it comes to photogrammetry, kind of the new thing, I don't know how many of you have updated your ReCap. If you ever ReCap Pro, if you uploaded it recently. First of all, signed into ReCap to get ReCap Pro. Because if [INAUDIBLE] collection, you have an entitlement a ReCap Pro.

But then ReCap Pro now also installs ReCap Photo. And I didn't know how many folks have access to point cloud data, but because they gave you this little NASA stuffed toy that they did themselves as a project, you can actually export this. If you never played with a point cloud with RCS, you can export this as a scan and put it into ReCap to teach yourself how to do it because ReCap doesn't have any sample data.

But now ReCap Photo exists as a separate tool, and I'll show you some of the ways that we leverage ReCap Photo to create and win projects as well.

AARON GIPPERICH: Yeah, and photogrammetry-- just showed everybody that this-- photogrammetry is not a laser scan. It is a reality capture device. You can get point clouds from it, but this is technically not what-- when we hear the word laser scanning, this is not it.

Photogrammetry is simply stitching together multiple two-dimensional photos and then generating three-dimensional data from it. This is probably the most popular-- I hate to use the term scanner, but I guess it is-- scanning device out here for photogrammetry-- the Matterport scanner.

The first time I ever saw this was actually in real estate ads. I saw some houses and was like, wow, what the heck did they use to capture that? This is what it is. This is actually a great option for many things. Its biggest limitation is its accuracy. This is not a device if you need to get millimeter or a quarter inch accuracy out of this, is not your best choice.

But the visuals from this are fantastic. If you're looking to get post-capture of your project, go this route.

MARIN PASTAR: And it's just a matter of capture. This uses an infrared sensor to bounce it from the wall and back. Laser scanner uses high quality laser that can bounce it feet away and bounce it back in. But again, $4,000 and an iPad gets you a-- pretty darn close and pretty stunning visuals that go directly into VR, which is how I got in through the Matterport when I first got my first VR device.

Matterport was one of the first companies that had a VR app that you can view your scans in virtual reality. Pretty powerful. It's just an example of-- it's very similar to the 360 photos, but it looks even much, much crisper.

It is slower to take a photo because the camera does rotate around. It makes a full circle. So you've got to stand behind the camera and just move your way around. But, get out of the way. But it creates-- like Aaron said-- stunning visuals.

And it creates a photogrammetry scan so you can take this, export it out, and take it into Revit. And you can create a-- if all you care about is two-inch delta within a 10 foot length, if that's good enough accuracy for you, this is going do a pretty good job of that.

Drones, my favorite toys. We got into drones just because we first started providing those drone updates-- video updates-- to be more transparent about the process. But then with the rise of photogrammetry and everything else, with drones they're really becoming a pretty powerful tool to enhance what we can do.

They're very budget friendly. We've got a couple. We've got the Mavic Pro-- Mavic Pro, which fits in my pocket. And the Inspire, which is a little bit bigger and a little better quality. They're $1,000 drone, $3,000 drone, very, very quick to get into it and very easy to do because there's a lot of solutions that are out there.

And you can scan massive, massive areas with very little effort, with especially if you don't have any existing conditions [INAUDIBLE] information about it. And this is kind of the results and that we're-- they're really unpredictable. You really-- it's a trial and error of how much the drones themselves will scan from very top looking down, and that's fully automated. You program it. You use the very different software systems.

And that's kind of the limitation, is what do you use? We've tried using DroneDeploy, 3DR, 3D robotics, Propeller Aero, SkyCatch, Pix4D, ReCap Photo. There's so many solutions out there. And it's one of those things, how do you choose? Which is the right one for you? And they all have a different subset of features. You can do a lot of analytics, a lot of things, a lot of analysis from the models.

But it's all about trial and error. We've tried them all. We've tried ReCap Photo. I keep saying ReCap Photo. I was really, really stunned by the quality of ReCap Photo and what they have done in processing for the [INAUDIBLE] scan. Some of the best can results came out of ReCap Photo. And we recently won a project, actually, just on Wednesday that I'll show you.

We won a project we were chasing because we had a lot of drone data in there and a lot of understanding of the existing site. But very, very useful information. Ways to get the drone data even more accurate, you know, when you do photogrammetry scans, you scan a 100-acre site, you kind of scanning a lot of photos and it starts stiching the photos. It kind of looks like almost you're scanning a rubber band like a rubber plate. And it doesn't really know where they are.

The drone has a GPS embedded in it, which is how it knows where it is. But it's about the same grade GPS as your cell phone is, so it's not that accurate. But it does a good job, and overall, I mean, it does a pretty decent job at it. But if you really want to take 120-, 150-acre site, 300-acre site, and pin it down geographically, you'd have two options.

You have to either hire-- get one of these devices yourself, which, basically, uses ground control points, and you can identify different points that-- on the site that you can pin the site down and so that you know exactly where you are. Still too complicated for my architects of my team, the team that does this.

We're really looking into-- we don't have any, but we're looking into Aeropoints. They're actually out here on site if you went by the drone zone. I saw some of those out there. A little two foot by two foot solar panel GPS receiver, you throw them on the site, you fly your drone, you scan the way you would anyway, but this little device captures all the satellite data that it uploads to the cloud. And it gives you an Excel file, gives you, basically, a full-blown report of exactly where those points are, where you took the photo.

And what you can do with that is, if you have a 300-acre site, it knows exactly to overlay the photos to the ground control points, making it much, much more accurate dimensionally over a larger area. So I'm really excited about where the drone scanning is going, but-- and we use it a lot of different ways right now, so.

AARON GIPPERICH: You have those on your Christmas wish list, right?

MARIN PASTAR: I-- hopefully. We'll see what comes out of the tree.

AARON GIPPERICH: The downside is if you are-- well, the accuracy is great. The downside is if you have a 300-acre site, every time you go scan, you're going to have to walk or drive out and place those back in every spot.

MARIN PASTAR: And hope that somebody didn't steal them.

AARON GIPPERICH: Yeah. Yeah. So our last big section-- that brings us to LiDAR scanning. This is what we might call the big boys of the industry. And this is what most of us are familiar with. This is the light detection and ranging system.

This is going to give you the most accuracy that you can get. Millimeter accuracy right now is about par for the course when we're talking about the high end of it. But downsides, they are very expensive, and in most cases, they are very slow to capture because most of them are like these systems. They're tripod-based systems.

These are probably the three biggest players in the industry with it-- Faro, Leica, and Trimble. There's a few others. Topcon makes some solutions. But these are all a tripod-based system, where it's going to sit. It's going to take anywhere from two to five minutes to do a 360 degree scan. You move to your next spot, and then you just go and go and go.

Leica's kind of dropped a bombshell in the industry. Excuse me. With that center unit, the BLK60, for how far it's brought the cost down. That's still about a $16,000, $17,000 piece of hardware. But the others next to it are about $50,000 plus.

MARIN PASTAR: And you see the trend of democratization of scanning and in [INAUDIBLE] reality capture data. Really don't go too much into the data side of what we have here, but one thought that you may have, if you start getting into reality capturing [INAUDIBLE] there, the vast amount of data storage that it takes, it really consumes a lot of resources. So hardware planning and where you're going to store and how you're going to leverage it is a whole different conversation.

AARON GIPPERICH: Absolutely. And these are just some other solutions along with it. The Trimble TIMMS Mobile Cart, this is a device that actually has one of those type of scanners we just saw on a cart. And this just actually rolls through your facility. It has a 360 degree camera along with the scanner. And we haven't used this one yet. We haven't hired it out. Maybe someday we'll get the right application for it, but the manufacturer claims only about 150,000 to 200,000 square feet a day that you can capture with this. And, you know, [INAUDIBLE].

MARIN PASTAR: It will work really well on very large open areas that you can very quickly get a scan data instead of having to set the scan or scan and set it again and scan. You usually just go about it. But if you have a lot of rooms, if you've got a lot of stairs, and things like that, it's a little bit more difficult with this one.

Which is why the next segment is really, really interesting. And you guys have probably seen a bunch of things out there on the floor about what's currently available.

AARON GIPPERICH: Yeah, this-- there's a lot of development, but this is the one that I know has us the most excited, especially that center unit there. That hospital project I mentioned earlier that we're going to go back and scan the interior, that GeoSLAM Zeb-Revo-- probably 99% I'm sure that's the device we'll be taking with us. And it's an untethered handheld unit.

Everything he's holding there is what you see. Just, basically, you walk through it at normal speed, wave it around, and whatever it sees-- they say about 30 feet of capture, but we found within 15 feet is where the accuracy starts to taper off. But, basically, anything within 15 feet, you walk by, it captures. Not as high quality as your tripod-based ones, but certainly good enough.

MARIN PASTAR: Well, this is actually in our St. Louis office. [INAUDIBLE] came over. They acquired one of the units. And we have a 12,000-square foot office. He captured 12,000 square feet of a fairly open office with this unit within about 10 minutes.

AARON GIPPERICH: 10 minutes, yeah.

MARIN PASTAR: He just walked around, looks like a crazy person going around, and just waving his hand around. But it was awesome because not only did he capture in about 10 minutes, he plugged it in his laptop, and then it processed for 10 minutes, and it had a fully registered scan of the entire 12,000-square foot space. Not GPS-tied-- they work-- it does not work off of GPS, so you cannot use real world coordinates. You can-- long process to get GPS coordinates in there, but if you just need existing conditions, this is-- I was blown away.

It does not scan in color. It's only about 40 million points instead of 200 or 300 million with the big scanners. But we-- within 20 minutes we imported it into ReCap. ReCap to Revit, and we verified that the longest quarter dimension over here in our office was 125 feet plus, 3/16 of an inch accuracy for something of this magnitude.

Again, it's a $45,000 device, but we can rent it out a lot quicker. So when you think about renting equipment, anybody can use this. All you've got to do is just start at the same point and stop at the same point, that's it. That is the bottom of it, and just wave it around. Very simple, so we're looking at doing a lot of scanning with this type of device.

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE].

MARIN PASTAR: It does. It actually has a GoPro attachment to it. So it will take 360 photo data along with it as well. He didn't have it handy to show us, so I couldn't tell you firsthand what the deliverable is. But I got an email from my reseller that's over here and said we're setting up something for next week to test that out. I'm really excited about what the potentials are. Because it's a game changer, for us at least.

And then there's-- I took this one from the internet. I've never scanned with a high quality LiDAR scan. It's kind of a scary thought that you would put a $60,000 or $80,000 device on a drone that could crash. That's not for me. But they're out there.

You saw it on the floor, probably, if you walked the expo. There-- they had like a BLK scanner on the drone. And it's pretty impressive what they can do. I'm really excited about where the ecosystem is going to take us in capturing a more accurate with better results with less resources.

So finally, we're going to talk about some workflows. We've got about 20 minutes left, and we'll kind of go over the high level of some of the use cases that we have done on the project.

AARON GIPPERICH: Yet again, not diving too deep into any of these, but if you're doing-- I do want to preface the real world coordinates-- this is critical if you're going to get exterior LiDAR scans, your very high quality ones. Establish your real world coordinates in your Revit models to your civil state planes coordinate system. It's not difficult to do once civil has where the buildings identified.

But the benefits-- this even goes beyond just point clouds, but where this really comes into play is whenever you hire out, you're getting your scan, they can register the scan to these coordinate systems. And when you go to bring your point cloud into the model, you link it by shared coordinates. And it's going to come in the right spot. There's no fumbling with it, manually moving it, it just comes in where it should.

And the benefits are there's much more downstream once you get on site and they have their total station. But even just from the point cloud layout, this is tremendous.

MARIN PASTAR: So for us, since we do everything on fabrication models and all that inside the Revit models, to have the real world coordinates in our models and when the contractors bring that control inside the building, and use point layout for anything that's model driven, everything, every point in our model is 100% GPS accurate.

AARON GIPPERICH: Yeah, what the main reason we've done this and probably what most of you do is to update your existing conditions in a Revit model. So here we've just take-- once we get the scan, we link it in either by the civil coordinates or just manually place it. You just find a common zero point for it. And then you just start looking and comparing what the point cloud shows versus your geometry. And then you just move through it.

And it's very simple. I mean, point cloud show like any other object in Revit. They look really weird. But they'll show up in sections, 3D views, plan.

So here's just a wall section cut through it where we're only looking about a foot deep, so that way you don't see a million points beyond it. It just looks like a garbled mess. But we can just go in and then take our geometry and it's as simple as that, just move it where it's supposed to be.

MARIN PASTAR: And then our workflows viewing we use Collaboration for Revit. I don't know how many of you-- how much of you-- how many of you use Collaboration for Revit, but you can view laser scan data inside Collaboration for Revit as well.

And-- sorry, I'll move back one slide. All we're doing, basically, is creating a placeholder of models and C4R so that every single consultant can actually link to their own point cloud on their own servers and view it that way. It's a fairly simple work around, but it works.

So one of the big reason why they use visual coordination [INAUDIBLE]. We run all the cross-section coordination in [INAUDIBLE] for all the systems, but the ability to pull in point cloud data after the demo phase of a project and all that and be able to compare it, this is very, very intuitive.

AARON GIPPERICH: And this may not be a secret for many of you, especially if you're familiar ReCap. If you're just getting into laser scanning, there's one piece of software. I would say learn how to use it-- get in and learn how to use ReCap. It's a very simple piece of software, but like most, it's easy to get into it, but if you start diving deep, there's a lot to it.

This is just a simple method we found of creating what they call regions of the points. And all you're doing is selecting the points from that cloud and just giving them a region with a name. And what this allows us to do is when we bring it into Revit, if you ever brought the point cloud straight into Revit, you know it just-- it looks pretty gnarly as soon as you bring in-- you're seeing points on the floor, points everywhere. It just looks like old static TV pretty much.

What this method lets you do is, when you basically take a cut almost like what a floor plan would be. You leave out the floor, but you assign each floor a level, say, about four to five feet up like your typical floor plan cut would be. Give them a name, first floor, second floor, and then you take the remaining points in here and just call them something along the lines of unassociated or not used.

The unfortunate thing is these points can only be in one region at a time. It'd be nice if it could be in multiple. But what that lets you do, is once you save that in ReCap, when you come back and you link this into your Revit model, you have those regions there that you can turn on and off. So before we found this little trick, what we ended up doing is, in our Revit model, we would have to go in and adjust the view range or it's not in a floor plan where you're not looking down to the floor, so it would clean it up. And vice versa on the ceiling.

But this lets you just create these ranges, and when it comes into your model, you have the control of this. So it adjusts instantly. So now when we go into our visibility graphics, to our point clouds tab, you expand it out, you'll see there's actually those regions that you assign, and you can turn them on and off. And, voila, you get a much cleaner file.

Unfortunately, it doesn't speed the view up a whole lot because you still have all those points in there that Revit's processing. But it can save you a lot of time from cleaning up each view to see only what you need to see with it, so.

MARIN PASTAR: And there's so much that ReCap can do. And there were some-- couple of great classes here at AU about really diving deep into ReCap and just explore what it can do and how it can help you with the workflow. Here's a new workflow that we found recently. We were trying to play around with a ReCap Photo.

This is an existing site, existing hospital that we scanned. We were actually-- we were chasing this project. There's going to be about a $15 million expansion to a privately-owned hospital. And, of course, nobody has any data. The owner has never seen the roof of the building, I don't think.

And we're chasing a project, wanted to show some concept. So my architect started modeling in FormIt. And started modeling some conceptual, and I said, well, is there any way we can get some data in FormIt so we can actually just show them what we mean, what we want?

And FormIt really kind of crashed and burned after putting in the OBJ files and photogrammetry in there. That's when I discovered InfraWorks. And we pulled in InfraWorks [INAUDIBLE] really demanding site that we had no information about, overlaid the drone data on top of InfraWorks, and then did some very conceptual modeling inside. So you can see how, very quickly, you've got pretty darn good information in InfraWorks about the existing conditions with a larger site that you can model very-- SketchUp-like.

I don't know if how many of you used InfraWorks so far. Anybody? It is so simple to create some very conceptual masses. And, again, we're not showing detail here. We're just using color blocks, basically, to go get in front of a client, tell them, hey, my project architects, we evaluated what can be done, demanding site. What are some of the constraints of the project? And very quickly communicate to the owner, here are some of the options that you have. And, what-- yesterday?

AARON GIPPERICH: Yeah, yesterday.

MARIN PASTAR: Notified we got the project. So, hey, it worked. Perfect example, so that project probably just paid for my drones and my ReCap. But it's very simple. You just think about what do you need it for.

AARON GIPPERICH: Yeah, and another-- just another nice thing about scans of this level, it's one of the old-- long issue we've had with clients is when clients see a scan of this level, much like whenever you're going with hand-sketching versus Revit. When clients see something done in 3D modeling in Revit, they kind of assume that it's done and it's ready.

When it's a hand-sketch they get that it's still conceptual. But the minute you show them a 3D model they think, oh, here's what it's going to look like. That drone scan being not incredibly high definition, that still helps convey that message of this is still a conceptual plan. This is not your final product. So it's a small thing, but it still goes a long way to helping the client understand the process and in what you're trying to show them.

MARIN PASTAR: I'm looking at time check. We've got about a little bit more than 10 minutes. I'm going to jump through just a couple of projects, what we did. I want to save at least 10 minutes or so for Q&A at the end. But this is a big, big $250,000 million expansion of a hospital that we did a lot of exterior existing condition scanning.

We scanned the entire exterior of the building that we compare to the model that we inherited and really modified it. We scanned the central energy plant. We scanned a lot of the interior areas and really did modeling. We used ClearEdge, which is a piece of software that is kind of automates modeling, not quite there yet. Again, modeling is still one thing that's a fairly manual process.

We kind of-- helped us with the location of existing building and really understand there's some discrepancies with the site survey versus the laser scan. And the laser scan really helped us confirm a lot about where the building really truly is. So trust your laser scan with true control points.

We did drone scans during construction. So this is that project right now in construction phase. We really are bringing this up in project meetings and letting everybody go around and see what the project is currently-- what stage it is at. We've got a hospital in Springfield, Missouri. We're adding that big dietary department at Heart Hospital. All this is obviously all the rendering of the space. [INAUDIBLE] small exterior components, so we didn't have any exterior scanning, but relocating a dietary department in an active hospital and building a heart hospital on top of it is a complicated project.

So here, really, demolition verification-- the way we work with the contractors to identify bid packages for demolition while they're still in design, and then integrate demo phase scanning into the project to verify a lot of this, it's very, very useful.

AARON GIPPERICH: You have time to elaborate on that one a little bit? Or--

MARIN PASTAR: We better kind of jump through. If you guys have any questions and want to go further, we'll be outside and talk about it. Aaron is in the middle of all that project, and he's got a lot of scan data and a lot of what we're doing, so. We'll talk about it.

Above ceiling coordination, again, we've done a lot, a lot of things on the project and--

AARON GIPPERICH: Yeah this was one of the first lessons we learned early on with scanning was about the units that they are registered in. Again, at the time we got them, we didn't know much about these. The first scan we got for this project was done in US survey feet units.

The person who did the scans swore up and down. It should plug-in, but it came in about 16, 18 inches off. And then when they dug into it he said, oh, yeah, it's got to be in international feet units. Once they did that, boom, it dropped right in where it was supposed to.

So that's usually not going to be an issue. But it's just something to note. If they come in on the wrong spot, check your units. It very well could be that because Revit defaults to international feet. Most of these scanning registration software defaults to US survey feet, so. Just something to know if you're not quite sure why it's not coming in correctly.

MARIN PASTAR: So here's a small residential house that we did. One of our clients said, hey, can you do an addition to my house and show me what this could look like, I would really like to see it. So he had an existing house that we did a lot of sketching from. We really quickly-- just went out there, scanned it, brought it into ReCap, brought it into Revit, model existing conditions from no measurements whatsoever. It really didn't matter for us to be 100% accurate. He just wanted to see a vision of his addition to the house could look like.

So quickly modeled it, quickly brought it into Revit, and did some sketching and some, you know, he can only understand so much from my architect sketches like that. But it really drove into a solution that we can bring in a fully-- a model that was 100% created from that point cloud with the addition on it, to show the client exactly the essence of what his expansion may look like.

This took no time. Again, our VR workflows are very, very solid. So the way we model in Revit, we're quick about it. We implement our materials very quickly. And we're able to really quickly show the owner in virtual reality-- this piece of software is called Fuzor. I don't know if you guys use it. We use several VR solutions as well for virtual reality and those workflows.

But the-- we brought our client into our office, put him in our VR lounge, and we put a headset on him. And he was able to see exactly what his master suite edition could look like and his deck outside. He's an avid cigar smoker so he wanted to have a nice little cigar lounge outside. It was a very quick way to show this client what he can do.

Of course, this is private residence. This client runs an organization that has a lot of other projects too. So as a marketing tool, it was very easy for us to show him this vision of, hey, this is your space. And we're-- by the way, we're going to do this for your projects as well, on a much higher level.

So quick workflows to showcase what you can do and how you can leverage scans. Boutique Hotel in downtown Springfield, Missouri. That won, actually, the boutique hotel of the year.

We wanted to do animation so we tried a drone scan but, again, the melting marshmallow, it really didn't look good. It-- we really couldn't do visualization from this. We want to do high quality animations of the new project that's going to be in this site right here. You know, we had the existing hotel in here and expansion phase two in here. It wasn't good.

And, actually, Megan [? Eli ?] taught a class-- she's over there in the back-- she taught a big class about some of the workflows for visualization. They had a great roundtable earlier on.

So some things we did. We set up a drone, and we did the drone video. So do you see the cars moving and all that? But we did an overlaid animation of this project coming up for the client and showcased what this is going to look like Insight with 360 video-- with just a regular video from a drone.

So, again, we keep exploring how we can leverage reality capture. Videos reality capture too. So the next stage of where we're taking this, is we're going to have a full animated flyover with a drone and match the camera [INAUDIBLE] animations to showcase what we can do with this.

So, again, a lot of different ways you can use reality capture. We've barely grazed the surface. We've kind of got through it all. I would like to open up to a little bit of question and answer right now. And we will play a little video in the background for us so you're not staring at the screen. But, yes.

AUDIENCE: So how does reality capture actually make an effective design? How do you design things that change [INAUDIBLE]. Cut out all of the BS and do more [INAUDIBLE].

AARON GIPPERICH: I would say from design, it hasn't so much yet. Where I do see it probably going in is [INAUDIBLE] we're heavy with VR. I do see we will probably start looking at workflows actually take early reality capture with a scan and bring it into VR to explore what's there now and get some solutions there.

I know there's a lot of things being worked on right now. I've actually these type of push and pull, Tony Stark, Iron Man type workflows. When we get there, I'm sure we'll start VR early on. But, yeah, right now reality captures, it's more for presentation than the actual design at this point.

MARIN PASTAR: For engineering systems design though, it really influences how our engineers design their systems because they have much, much more accurate data of the existing conditions that they have to coordinate with. So that's a huge portion.

AARON GIPPERICH: Yeah.

MARIN PASTAR: Yeah.

AUDIENCE: When it comes to [INAUDIBLE] how do you actually know [INAUDIBLE].

MARIN PASTAR: So that's exactly the problem we're having with Heart Hospital project that Aaron had. Aaron, do you want to take that since it's your project?

AARON GIPPERICH: Answer your questions, we can't right now. All these scans-- what you see is what they can scan. To my knowledge, ground penetrating radar can see stuff underground. But to my knowledge, there's no technology like that for the interior that we'll see yet.

That Heart Hospital project, that's been-- we've actually-- we've been doing a lot of laser scanning, but it's still been, I'll just say, challenging. Because the way that project's working is, it's multi-phase. There's departments that are moving out, we're demoing that spot. Then they're coming in.

So in a lot of these cases, we're not actually getting in to do the laser scan until after construction documents have been issued and they're demoing it. And then we're finding stuff is off by six, eight inches, a foot. And we're coming back and updating our drawings. And then, so it's causing some friction there, we're doing this again? But better to have it than not. And then deal with it once we get to fabrication, so.

MARIN PASTAR: You've got to make the best assumptions you can during design.

AARON GIPPERICH: Yeah.

MARIN PASTAR: And what we're learning is we're structuring bid packages so that towards the end of our design process, we want the demo package to be under way so that we have the ability to incorporate scan data of the demo conditions while we're still in construction document phase and have the ability to change our designs should there be any unknowns that pop up.

But, again, during design process, if you have no access to those spaces, you have to make the best assumptions on documentation that you have and verify. That's what is really important. Verify once you do get the ability to scan. Yes.

AUDIENCE: Do you use the scanned data for the construction layouts?

MARIN PASTAR: Using this for construction layouts-- we have not been using scanned data for construction layouts. It certainly helps us with that because we understand, especially on a project that the civil survey was not in the right location [INAUDIBLE] building. The scan really pointed out that once they started laying out the things on the field, something was off.

And we said, well, you probably should take a look at the laser scan because that is the most accurate information in there. So we're able to catch the mistakes in that stage while they were laying out and make the corrections necessary at that point. Yeah.

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] previous question [INAUDIBLE] scanning during construction to capture those items that would be in the slab or in the wall or on the ceiling?

MARIN PASTAR: We do scanning-- we don't scan, but we require scans be done of those areas that we know that we have made some just assumptions. We just assume things that are going to be there. So we do require scans to verify our assumptions once that becomes available.

And sometimes even the things that you construct, if another portion of the facility is about to be built, and a portion just got built but everything is model-driven, we want to make sure that the portion that just got built is built in the right place. So when you start prefabricating the next portion, you make sure that it all ties together and that there's no discrepancies there.

So there's a lot of uses for it. We haven't used it, but floor flatness analysis, things like that. There's a lot of reasons during construction phase what GCs use laser scanning for. But for us, it's basically verification that our designs are still applicable to what's really actually there.

AARON GIPPERICH: Yeah, to that though, at this point, that question we haven't done hardly any of that. It's pretty much all been demo verification at this point. But it's something to look at, especially as more and more of the contractors actually have them on site. There's no reason not to.

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

MARIN PASTAR: Yeah.

AUDIENCE: During construction [INAUDIBLE] so much of the rest of it [INAUDIBLE].

AARON GIPPERICH: Yeah, it makes total sense to do it. It really does.

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

MARIN PASTAR: Yeah. Well, what we're doing on that end-- but like I said, our holy grail is the operations and maintenance and all the data and having the [INAUDIBLE] condition. So we are very-- we're [INAUDIBLE] by the model, and we're basically making sure that during the entire designing construction process, that both design intent and fabrication models are being updated because we do have to turn over contractually.

We do have to turn over as built Federated models and associated data that the real estate, operations, maintenance, their finance department, their clinical engineering department, that all these people in managed assets, they rely on knowing where their assets are. So we are in charge of all that entire process. That's a whole separate conversation of why we got into laser scanning and being much more accurate about how we do things. Yeah.

AUDIENCE: So we know that in reality [INAUDIBLE] design [INAUDIBLE]. So how do you resolve that when you're [INAUDIBLE] existing condition [INAUDIBLE].

AARON GIPPERICH: What I've done when I plug the point cloud in, I try and actually make the cut at the same level that are actual cut for the floor plan to be, typically four feet. And I'll usually just slice a very narrow range so if it's off you don't see it below. And unless the wall is extremely out of plumb, a quarter inch or so, and that usually doesn't make it-- isn't that critical. So once it's in they can see, oh, there it is. And they can just line it up, and it's close enough. And that'll get us to within that 1/8 to 1/4 inch range, and we call it good.

MARIN PASTAR: I'm not-- I'm an architect so the next statement is going to hurt me as well. But, I really don't care about walls as much as I care about everything else-- the static, all the systems, all the mechanic, electrical, plumbing, all the equipment. That's where, when you talk about coordination, when you're talking about all those things, that is what costs a lot of money, and that's what you really want to coordinate at.

Walls, whether it's a little slightly shifted this here and there, that really-- as long as the structure is there, as long as the infrastructure of facility's there that's really where the huge benefit of the process is. It is painful to do those little estimations of where do you place the wall. But like I said, Aaron found a workflow that works pretty well. And until they can do 100% modeling directly from the point clouds, which they're working on, but like I said, there's not a very good solution to do it from right now, that's the best we can do. Yeah.

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] are you using specific platform software [INAUDIBLE].

MARIN PASTAR: We have-- so ReCap Photo is great for-- I think ReCap Photo and 3DR, 3D Robotics, which is built on top of ReCap Photo, they have, I think, the best high quality scans. ReCap Photo can't-- you can't really share a whole lot with clients or anybody else. If you need a lot of different tools, we've tested out every one of them. DroneDeploy is really good because it's really easy to send the client a link and say, hey, check out your building and on WebGL, on any platform, really. No users needed, nothing like that.

We have tried them all. If I go for quality, I'll do a ReCap Photo. If I go for sharing, any other platform depending on what features you need, is a viable option. But it's all about what do you need it for. You have one, sir? Here.

AUDIENCE: Yeah, if you [INAUDIBLE] extract building materials?

MARIN PASTAR: We have not done very many-- very much QTO as of right now. We looked into systems like Assemble, and do the model-based quantity analysis and all that. What we do is we want to make sure that the whole sharing of information-- we share our models with absolutely everybody.

And this is kind of the industry shift. You've got 90% to 95% of your model is accurate but 5%, 5% or 10% is not. It's not fair to dock the contractors and say, well, I'm not going to give you my models because I know it's inaccurate. Well, but 90% of it is. Why wouldn't you let him use it? And it comes into liabilities and all this and that.

But our industry is going away from silos. Our industry is going into working together. So I think that model-driven QTO, once we get into a more interesting way to contract with each other, IPD is great-- Internet Project Delivery. But it's still not quite mainstream. The owners are still afraid of the risk. But I see that being a lot more useful moving down the road.

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

MARIN PASTAR: We can. It's all about who wants to trust it. And that trust level is going to be increasing as is--

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

MARIN PASTAR: Yeah.

AARON GIPPERICH: Yeah.

MARIN PASTAR: Yeah. It's not necessarily what's in the model. I know what's in the model is accurate. It's what's not in the model. Because you're never going to get absolutely everything in the model. But, yeah.

AUDIENCE: It's also [INAUDIBLE] take the design model but the contractor didn't take off from your model [INAUDIBLE].

AARON GIPPERICH: Yeah.

MARIN PASTAR: Yeah. Well, on the MEP systems, like I said, we're stopping our-- as of the most recent projects-- we're stopping our engineer record at 100% design development, and we're letting the subcontractor finish the modeling and detailing through construction documents under the supervision of the engineer of record. To really shorten the time frame, we're procuring equipment, shop drawings, installation drawings, all during that construction document phase where the subcontractor's modeling.

So at the end of CDs, you already have several [INAUDIBLE] signed off, ready to go the fabrication. And at that point, the subcontractors are developing much, much more detailed QTO level models that they can go and implement. So we're really challenging the process of how things work right now with the disconnected BIM, where everybody has to start their own models all over the time, and bringing that team together and--

Any questions? Anymore? Anybody else? Yeah.

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] InfraWorks [INAUDIBLE]. Is that ReCap Photo?

MARIN PASTAR: Yes, that was ReCap Photo. ReCap Photo on top of InfraWorks. I think we are out of time.

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] automated drones [INAUDIBLE].

MARIN PASTAR: Yeah, the scan was 100% automated.

AUDIENCE: That was in 3DR, you said it was?

MARIN PASTAR: That one was done with capture-- was done with DroneDeploy. Processing with ReCap Photo.

AARON GIPPERICH: Yeah, that's great. It's a free one. You can just plot--

[APPLAUSE]

MARIN PASTAR: Thank you, everybody.

AARON GIPPERICH: Thank you. Thank you.

Downloads

______
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We use Google Analytics (Advertising) to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Google Analytics (Advertising). Ads are based on both Google Analytics (Advertising) data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Google Analytics (Advertising) has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Google Analytics (Advertising) to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Google Analytics (Advertising) Privacy Policy
Trendkite
We use Trendkite to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Trendkite. Ads are based on both Trendkite data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Trendkite has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Trendkite to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Trendkite Privacy Policy
Hotjar
We use Hotjar to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Hotjar. Ads are based on both Hotjar data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Hotjar has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Hotjar to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Hotjar Privacy Policy
6 Sense
We use 6 Sense to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by 6 Sense. Ads are based on both 6 Sense data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that 6 Sense has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to 6 Sense to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. 6 Sense Privacy Policy
Terminus
We use Terminus to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Terminus. Ads are based on both Terminus data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Terminus has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Terminus to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Terminus Privacy Policy
StackAdapt
We use StackAdapt to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by StackAdapt. Ads are based on both StackAdapt data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that StackAdapt has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to StackAdapt to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. StackAdapt Privacy Policy
The Trade Desk
We use The Trade Desk to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by The Trade Desk. Ads are based on both The Trade Desk data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that The Trade Desk has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to The Trade Desk to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. The Trade Desk Privacy Policy
RollWorks
We use RollWorks to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by RollWorks. Ads are based on both RollWorks data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that RollWorks has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to RollWorks to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. RollWorks Privacy Policy

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