Get Organized Civil Infrastructure Projects

CEES KRUIT: Good morning, everyone. How are you today? Yes. Let's start. It's quarter past nine. So welcome to you all this morning on Thanksgiving today. I hope you had a wonderful party last night and you're fresh now at the last day. And I hope that you have some very nice past two days here at the [? AU, ?] and hopefully will be the third now.

Thank you for choosing our class to watch and to listen to our experience of this proudly multidisciplinary project. My name is Cees Kruit.

FRANK PEPPING: I'm Frank.

CEES KRUIT: And we're both from Holland. And I'd like to ask you to mute your telephone during this presentation. Let's show me what this story is about. I'm going to tell you some things about the project itself, the challenges, the goals. And next to that, Frank will take you through the document management system. After that, we go into the lessons learned, and we'd like to answer your questions after this presentation.

First of all, I will take you to the Netherlands. You might know where it is or might not know where it is. We start here in Las Vegas, and we take you through a journey. And then we're flying from here to Amsterdam.

And it's all about the Passenger Terminal building in Amsterdam. And to get the largest ships out there for passengers, we have to build a lock near the North Sea in here. And we have to build this lock between all the still-in-operation other locks.

Here you see a small animation with how it should look like. So we're still building this project. So this will be the new sea lock in IJmuiden in Holland.

OK, this is the class about the largest lock in the world. It's called OpenIJ. That's the project name. And it will be the example of our case in this. The tender started in 2014. After one year, we won this tender, and we were very proud to start the detailing phase.

This lock will be built on three main contractors-- Royal BAM, VolkerWessels, and Van Oord-- and a large account of subcontractors and engineering partners. This lock will be finished early 2022. So we are still doing a lot of work up there. And after that, we have a maintenance period of 26 years. So we are locked to it for a long, long time.

That's me. It's not the Terminator. It's me running. That's one of my hobbies, and the other one is cycling. I started at the Royal BAM in 1989. It's almost 30 years ago.

And then I started as a draftsman on this kind of terminals. Those were large terminals and were supported by a large mainframe, like this. It's about half the size of this room. So now you can imagine how it was then and what we have now. At that time, we have only shift times-- two hours on, two hours off. And now all day long, you're beside your computer.

I started a love of 2D drawings and projects, and now we are looking to 3D. I started there with 3D in 1994. One of the projects I started with was the storm surge barrier at the Hook of Holland. Those are two-section doors which has the height of one Eiffel tower-- not the Eiffel Tower here in Las Vegas. That's much smaller.

The other one was the largest [INAUDIBLE] barrier. This is the world's largest one, which is a surge barrier built in world. And they couldn't make this without making it in 3D at that time.

At 2014-- oh, that's too fast. At 2014, I started as a BIM coordinator at the project we're talking about now. It was start from scratch. I didn't know about BIM at all. So that's where my experience started with BIM. Now four years later, I'm more BIM advisor at some other multidisciplinary projects.

Here are some numbers of the company, the Royal BAM. It's an international operational company. Here you see some numbers-- $6.6 billion. Yeah, well, you can read all of that there. We have about 20,000 employees worldwide, and we are operating in 40 worldwide companies, five in Europe.

And we have also a project in the South Pole right now where we are increasing the climate investigation plant. And we can only work there for a few months a year. That's a very interesting and very nice project out there.

We are the first construction company in the world who has the BIM Level 2 certificate. So we did it last year.

FRANK PEPPING: Well, after a brief introduction of Cees, I will introduce myself. I'm Frank Prepping, and I'm a consultant at CAD & Company stationed in the Netherlands. And for the past seven years, I'm working there on several big projects.

One of them is the new airport in Mexico City, working closely together with [INAUDIBLE] and [? DHV. ?] And I'm very proud to tell you all about the OpenIJ project and what we achieved there with all the contractors that are out there.

CEES KRUIT: All right, I take you through the project from start. This was the situation before we got built up there. Overall, you see some of the locks up there which are still operational, less or more.

The smallest one was built in 1872. It was the smallest one up there. It's the southern lock. The second was built four years later. And the mid-large was 20 years later. So you can see here they are increasing the length and the depth of the locks. So their ships are increasing the sizes as well.

About 30 years later, they built the northern lock. At that time, it was the largest lock in the world until the Panama locks were built. But 90 years later, we make a larger one.

And the challenge is to build between two operational locks, between the middle lock and the northern lock. The dimensions of this lock is 500 meters long-- that's the nominal size-- 70 meters wide, and 80 meters deep. After completion, the northern lock will be only put out of operation when the new lock is in maintenance. So it will be in operation up then.

The new lock will be built between the middle lock. Oh, I just did that one. The topics--

FRANK PEPPING: Well, today's class, we will talk about what you will do in managing engineering and construction data. We'll learn how to pick the right solution for your project, learn what brings the cloud to civil infrastructure projects, and learn how to maintain the BIM execution plan.

CEES KRUIT: To give you some facts and numbers of the sea lock, the lock is, between the doors, 545 meters long. And we put the other units underneath so you can compare it with your dimensions. The width is 70 meters. That's between the locks and the walls. And it's 18 meters deep, and it is limited to the river depth.

And we have three doors, two operational ones and one in spare. These doors were built in South Korea. And three weeks ago, they put the three doors on a large ship to transport it to the Netherlands. And previously, they are somewhere near Madagascar. Here they are on the [? TALISMAN, ?] the heavy load carrier. They will arrive in Rotterdam at the beginning of December, where they finalize for the last pieces up there.

To compare, you see the Panama lock, only one of it-- this is part of three-- and our lock. And as you can see at the dimensions, we are the largest again. Yes. And as a reference, you might know that the Stratosphere here in Las Vegas, it's about 350 meters high. So it's 50% larger than the Stratosphere.

Here you see a 3D cross-section of one of the doors. One door is 72 meters long, 24 meters high. It's about 10-story building. 11 and 1/2 meter thick, and it weighs about 2,800 tons of steel. And like I said, there are three of them, and we made this with Inventor 2016. And it has about or more than 6,000 parts and assemblies.

We also have to use some concrete. Well, it's about 290,000 cubic meter concrete. And that's about 29,000 trucks of concrete. And that's one traffic jam from New York City to Washington DC. And the concrete is located at one of the inner locks and outer locks, the walls, et cetera, et cetera.

Then we have 7 and 1/2 thousand tons of tubular piles, which supports 10,000 tons of sheet piling anchored with 2,000 anchors. And here we have 25,000 tons of reinforcement, and that's about 25,000 cars.

Here you can see the dimensions. It's the inner lockhead. This is a double one because we have to store our third door up here. And this is the operational one. And, well, you can see the dimensions. One of these walls is 7-meters thick concrete, massive concrete wall. And the floor is about 4 meters thick-- also massive. So it's a quite heavy construction.

This is at the riverside, and this one, the outer lockhead, is at the outer side. So here you could see that it's much smaller than the inner one.

Beside of these numbers, we still have 4 and 1/2 million cubic meters soil. We dig it. We take it away. And why do we have to put that? In Amsterdam, we have a largest soccer stadium in the Netherlands, and it's a [INAUDIBLE] arena. It has a capacity of 55,000 seats. And we could fill this stadium up twice, or about 6,000 swimming pools.

We have some clean sands. We put them temporary in the North Sea on special places. And we have some dirt soil, and that we have to transport to Rotterdam on a special place where they are going to clean it.

Well, after these nice pictures and numbers, we had some things to solve. We have several disciplines to get together. What's our problem? We have, in this project, different participants, different devices, different platforms, different CAD users with their own setups, different templates, and different workflows. And we have ICT on different locations, and our network performance, where we have to transport, every time, large-file-size models.

And we have a large variety of file formats, different software. We have no control on the file versions and revisions. So they can be stored everywhere. Think about all the reference files. They can be stored everywhere. You can make copies, and this sort of thing. So you don't know if you have the right one if you use one. And there might be some duplicates everywhere, and that's not acceptable.

Here is the software platform which we use-- Revit for the construction; Inventor, like I said, for the doors and movements; Civil 3D for the roadwork, the road design. And still, we use AutoCAD for plans and that sort of things, Navisworks to have a coordination model. We use some Dynamo, and we use some [? 3ds ?] Max.

Beside of Autodesk software, we have some other vendor software. VOSS is Van Oord's survey system. They model it, and they put all the data directly to the equipment. And that's especially for the bottom of the river and nearby the sea. Then we have EPLAN. That's for the electrical parts. And Allplan we use for reinforcement. And then we have SolidWorks. So this is quite a lot of different kinds of formats.

To control all these items, we started a BIM execution plan already at the tender phase. Here we described all necessary things to operate in a good way during the design execution. In this execution plan, we described all CAD systems, all processes, all working methods, exchanging methods, et cetera, et cetera.

We updated this plan several times because of our experience during this design phase. And working, we would like to work in the same way for all disciplines, if possible, because we had some challenges for, like, Inventor. At Revit, it's quite simple, but we have to exchange between Revit and Inventor, and Revit and SolidWorks as well. So it's quite a challenge to get it all together and to make it all one.

We also made the change in the BIM execution plan by introducing the data management system, because you have to set up the workflows and make everyone clear what we want and what we need. It's important to describe these all new possibilities in that plan. This plan is now about 80 pages. And now we have five versions made until now.

This estimated structure we made before we made the decision to go to the DMS. We described this, we think, very well, but it still has some problems. This is also a part of the BIM execution plan.

A DMS has a lot of added value using the large amount of data. The DMS keeps track on versions, revisions, and keeps track on references and so on. The DMS has integration with all the Autodesk products we used up here, making it more convenient to use.

We only used the DMS for engineering propose. The actual submittal were done by think project. So we only used a part of the DMS Frank is going to tell you about.

So what are our goals? Get well organized in the CAD platform with all these different problems. We have to import about 10,000 CAD files into DMS. Every CAD user has to be happy working with this new way because it's more strictly. Bring in the engineering document system, one that the project is common-used engineering software on the project. And it must be available inside or outside the project.

FRANK PEPPING: Well, it's important to set a place of data structure in the middle of your project because data is made, in a large amount, of different software solutions compared to 10 years ago. The era in which DWGs and paper were a common source of exchange of data is in the past now for Royal BAM in such kind of projects. Data stored in a single source is easier to manage. The history of the files and the reuse of all the data for all the purposes or in other teams made it more easier to work with.

Well, we proposed to the project to use Autodesk Vault Professional at that time. Because to have the most optimal performance, we advised a combination of the data management server in the data center of the project in combination with Autodesk Vault File Server. The Autodesk Vault File Server is a local storage solution for the optimal performance on the office of OpenIJ.

We combined the standard version of Autodesk Vault Professional with the power tools from CAD & Company for repetitive tasks, as filling in the project metadata. We developed the [? auto ?] properties solution, and new files are populated within the metadata of the project folders. And based on the given values of the rule [? applied, ?] they will be assigned a list of metadata that's good for that particular file. You can imagine a drawing has other needs than a reference, or an Inventor file, or a Revit file.

This is to help the engineers on focusing on designing and not on administrative tasks. And the publisher solution gives the opportunity to generate PDF files populated with the full properties and with all the metadata from the source files. So you can find every drawing you need.

All this software has to be controlled with a [? docu ?] management solution. So at [? start, ?] the onboarding of the project, the choice for Vault was made. And after the acceptance of the proposal, we made a project plan in combination with the IT department of OpenIJ.

We split the project in several phases, four of them. And phase two and phase three of the project, for us, has a go/no go moment based on the challenges and experiences we had earlier with project that are already in a design phase and implemented the data management solution [? going ?] off the project. We [? decided ?] we go further or not.

Well, beginning at phase one, we started with a project approach setup and to define the scope, what we will do and what we don't do, and define the IT infrastructure with the IT department. In phase two, we created the IT infrastructure. And because it was already an ongoing design phase, we scanned all data upon data integrity. And for missing references, we did a pilot upload on the pilot infrastructure so we could hand over and test, with the key users, if it was matching their needs.

Going to phase three, the final implementation-- repeated some tasks, scanning the reference and the data again, import all the Civil 3D projects. We did [? out-load ?] the Inventor files and the Oracle data, and filled up all metadata based on the title blocks that were in the drawings, and so on.

In phase four, we started user training after the final input of the data. And we go to the maintenance of the system.

Well, in phase one, we set up the project approach and project plan. We defined the scope, what we wanted to address in implementing Vault as a single point of truth. We addressed the risk of implementing the data management system and the system during design phase based on the experiences of the project we did earlier.

Well, new systems come with change. So you have the old way and the new way. So change will be for Revit users-- well, it was a small change because they still used the central file system which was stored in the file server. But nevertheless, the central files can be synchronized with [? Vault ?] [INAUDIBLE] glorify as a backup system and to establish all relationships to all linked Revit models.

Vault also managed the project library so they could index all particular family types for search and need. Well, Inventor was the most users are already familiar with. So the introducing of Vault in combination with Inventor was not hard. And for the files [INAUDIBLE] and the relationship is [INAUDIBLE].

Well, we used AutoCAD. But with a small amount of users, that shouldn't be the problem because of the well integration with Vault.

Unlike the Inventor users, it was difficult step for the Civil 3D users. Structure is very important for Civil 3D models. And references, alignments, corridors, and data links, et cetera, are very important for building a Civil 3D model. It's important to have users in your team that have experience in collaboration of all the projects and split the project in the right pieces.

CEES KRUIT: It was very hard.

FRANK PEPPING: Yeah, you can imagine. Well, Autodesk has set up a best practice to get well organized with the general use of Civil 3D. And by implementing Vault, the need of doing that is a good manner to get track of all [? the ?] bad habits that a user can have during a project that's under high pressure.

Well the infrastructure design, we started with a centralized full server that was made available to the project location in Harlem, where all the [? engineers ?] were working on the project with the Autodesk full file server. And also there is a [? joke ?] processor, which I was-- we'll talk about later on. There was the second site. That's the construction site, and it's at the [INAUDIBLE] location in [INAUDIBLE]. There are also users that have to obtain all the data.

And the other purpose that was in the scope to making it available for home use, as well. So do you use your scan review or edit the data that is stored in the Vault. So we made it open to public with-- via the internet. Well they [? through ?] the implementation of the infrastructure was done, and we set up a basic standard manner of information of the configuration of fault with the metadata, life cycles, revision schemes, that kind of stuff. But also a numbering scheme to get a-- to fulfill the BIM execution plan numbering scheme, so we can create a file that is not duplicated or the file is obtained twice in the system.

While scanning all file relations have some-- it was very important, as you can see in the image. There are several locations, and the hardest one are usually related. So in the 10 folder on the C drive, we as a centralized user-- you can't find and you will get errors or discrepancy of the data. So this could be you. So we have to fix all that before implementing. And we reported the scanning results to the team of case to fix them and get all the relationships in [? AutoCAD's ?] right by the-- with the AutoCAD reference manager so we could do the-- a loading of all the data without a loader that comes with Autodesk Vault.

CEES KRUIT: I can tell you that some people were very surprised to see this. w We ere not happy to see it also because the data was somewhere else than we used to have it.

FRANK PEPPING: So when already started the [INAUDIBLE] 3D project, with data shortcuts you can promote a project within Civil 3D and it will be imported by the prospect of Civil 3D. And it will be translated as a Civil 3D project, and all references of data shared will be there as well.

We did some workshops with the key users with onboarding and reflect the configuration to get some feedback, change configuration after it, and get the acceptance of the new solution. Well we got to go after [INAUDIBLE] some hard to change [? for ?] the data. And we started uploading and before we uploading, we did the check again. There were still some data that wasn't-- weren't referenced right, so we did redo some things. We extracted title blocks of AutoCAD and exported them to Excel, so we could fill the metadata in Vault upon all the data was there. And we replaced all the existing title blocks with a Vault enabled data block. So they are connected to each other.

Well, after that, we had a good [INAUDIBLE] system with all the data there, and a configuration that was working quite simple. We had a three-stage work process-- working in progress, concept, and final. At each step to another state of the lifecycle, we did some tasks like changing the lifecycle stage. Filling it in to the properties of the documents, changing revisions, and also create a PDF file for reviewing. And that did-- we did for all other stages in the lifecycle.

Well, as you can imagine, a drawing file is not a external reference file. So we treated it another way. So from [INAUDIBLE] there was no generation of PDF needed. So we let it out. We obtained another revisions handling during it because of the standardized working at it.

So after doing all the hard job of importing the files, we had to do some education to all users. Education is very important on acceptance. And it's all about the people. So they need to adopt a process that is supported by the software. A [INAUDIBLE] training is the first step to take when onboarding the engineers. We told them what the project needs and why it was needed. for this product that has a strict workflow. Garbage in is garbage out.

As we spoke before when uploading existing design data, data that has a discrepancy won't go in. So folders preventing you for checking files for unknown references and locations, for example. So if it's not complete, it won't get in. And poor trained engineers come up into the surface complaining about, I always work that way. And I worked-- and it worked fine. But there are project needs that will fulfill all the needs. So that are the same people that deliver poor quality at [? our ?] project, as well. So you have to get them up and train them in a good way.

Well we had an intern at a project-- as we say-- and that's the technology of the job process. It's the computer that is automated administer [? basic ?] tasks for you. And it does a lot of things engineers has studied for-- that did not study for. Filling in the metadata of generation of PDF files and populate it with the metadata of the source, connecting it to the source, and digital processor did all that for them on-- upon change of the state. And it was all done behind the scene.

So you can have the synchronize of the properties from [? fall ?] to the file. So title blocks will show up with the right information. It's generated a preview for [? not ?] [INAUDIBLE] users. Generate PDF files. So it could be handled over to think project. But it could also be automated to share it right away-- to share [INAUDIBLE] location if needed and copy the metadata as well.

Now this is what happening when you see-- you go from work in progress to a final state, you see that upon change of the lifecycle stage. It was work in progress, and there was here a revision-- particular revision block that was not-- was emptied here. And all the final information was stored here and here.

As you can imagine there are some difficulties during project because Vault is a [INAUDIBLE] solution. And it's-- in storing the engineering data, it confronts the users with a bad habits, like only unloading and not used [INAUDIBLE]. But instead of detaching them, only failed data that will be checked in. So if you have a obsolete file, you have to be-- get used to that you detach files instead of unloading that so you won't get errors, or you don't have [INAUDIBLE]. And it's all based on getting the good design and not old data.

And we had some bad habits discovered in Navisworks as well, which has some bad habits of obtaining image files that weren't needed. And so we have to work around that way, but we migrated to Vault 2019 this fall. So all [? the ?] habits were fade away. And we now finally can work the way we want. Fully integrated.

So DMS in the field-- in practice. We work with 73 engineers [INAUDIBLE] a project. We had created of 40,000 documents with 100 Revit models, 2,000 DWGs, 2,900 assemblies, 2,000 PDF files, 60,000 [INAUDIBLE] parts, and a lot of unsorted files that were referenced to all the solutions of SolidWorks and VOSS. And it makes a total of 247,000 versions of-- combined to all each other. And get an average of 6.18 versions per file. And the largest version was checked in and checked out more than 8,000 times. If you combine all the data you get-- you need-- we had to store it on one terabyte of data. And well, it's quite large for the project only.

We had some lessons learned. Starting with Vault-- that with an oncoming project it's-- well, it's quite hard to do, so. You can better decide to implement your solution upfront at the start of your project. Take it with you in BIM execution plan, implement it before that, and make the users familiar with it. Start all data-- if you come from a tender phase-- start scanning your data if you want to reuse it in your project. [? Or ?] work process-- workflows, processes, et cetera-- place it in your BIM execution plan so you can make all the engineers and stakeholders aware of what is needed to execute the plan.

As we now are in Vault 2019, we can have a hybrid solution combined with BIM 360. We are moving the engineers that are working on Revit to the construction site. So we moved the files-- Revit files to BIM 360 to collaborate with each other with BIM 360 design. But we are now still able to obtain that-- all the data that is stored in BIM 360 to the Vault, again, with the use of an automated process and the job processor.

Pay some attention on the Civil 3D users. Train them well in collaboration with each other. In such complex projects, that is a big need. And inform or clearly explain why the use of the data management solution is so good for the project. And inform all the external engineers and consultants what will bring BIM and the data management solution for them.

CEES KRUIT: So that'll be it.

FRANK PEPPING: That will be it, and [INAUDIBLE] some questions? Yeah?

AUDIENCE: So how much is this project going to cost? Because-- or do you guys have any idea yet?

FRANK PEPPING: You mean the total cost of the project?

AUDIENCE: Yes.

FRANK PEPPING: That's a hard question. It's a nasty one. We started with 600 million euros roughly. But now, I won't tell you.

CEES KRUIT: And it doesn't have anything to do with the document management for solution.

FRANK PEPPING: No, I was very pleased of using this document management because I have control, now, on the files and the references. And we build up a history story of every file we are checking in. So that's just [INAUDIBLE] fine for me to have control.

AUDIENCE: Looking in hindsight, what you have did differently now? Because you started a few years ago.

CEES KRUIT: Yes.

AUDIENCE: And we have now new--

CEES KRUIT: New technologies.

FRANK PEPPING: New technologies.

FRANK PEPPING: Yeah. Yeah I like lessons learned to tell us. Especially for a reference I will use BIM 360 because it hasn't much value to store your central files-- [? reference ?] central files into Vault. Doesn't give me any extra things so I think it's better, and exchanging between other parties is also better and in BIM 360. It's more open, because Vault is stored on a network drive mostly of a company. And you have to have some special access to like a SMS token, that sort of thing. So it's much easier to use BIM 360 for every-- for the other files it's-- I can say that you can use Vault.

CEES KRUIT: It's also very important if you want to-- based upon your project needs-- if you want to use Revit files on design of your Inventor models, you can load Revit project files in Inventor for creation upon that. But if-- that's why you can use the hybrid solution to get away with it. So it's all about the needs of your project what-- which solution best fits for you.

FRANK PEPPING: So to have an idea, we started with Autodesk 2016 software. So that has been four years ago. So that was how we make decisions. For now, Vault has many more possibilities. And they are much better than it was in 2016. So-- but still for the record files I advise you to do it in BIM 360. You're more flexible.

AUDIENCE: Are you maintaining the-- are you staying with 2016 throughout the entire project? Or are you updating to the latest version as you go?

FRANK PEPPING: We are transforming it now, at this moment, to 2019. Yeah. Because you can't use the 2016 now if you're in 2018. So we have to increase the versions.

AUDIENCE: Have you accounted for that in your project timeline? How much time are you accounting for that transition-- taking those files, updating them. Are you-- I mean everybody. All your subs-- everybody has to update to the latest version now.

FRANK PEPPING: Yeah the people are working with it-- are getting less because we are at the end of the design phase. We are in execution, now. And we are going to do the build m now. So there are less users, now, to change to another version. So it's not that hard to change it right now, because you're changing the phase, now.

AUDIENCE: The question I had was the more specific to Civil 3D. How did you address the issue with data references across multiple networks?

CEES KRUIT: Well Vault is maintaining all-- because for these [INAUDIBLE] client solution, all the data if-- on need will be copied out to your file system. And we had a-- the location, the workspace was fixed for everybody. So that's why it will work for everybody that needs-- in this case, they needed a D drive. And if it wasn't there, we [? were ?] round [? tripping ?] it so it was there, so. Questions?

AUDIENCE: So in using your 3D model, [INAUDIBLE]?

FRANK PEPPING: Yes, we are going to do that. Yeah. Yeah. But there was a decision at the start of the project-- we do it [INAUDIBLE]. That was the decision. Yeah that's what-- it's four years ago. So that's-- but now they are looking to the 3D model, and they are thinking about that is very nice to have this model for maintenance, especially on 26 years. So we make a connection to a [INAUDIBLE]. We are up to that now, because we are at the end of the design phase. So yes, we are going to use the 3D model.

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 26 years, you will hand the 3D model to the client [INAUDIBLE]?

FRANK PEPPING: It's not necessary they didn't ask you about it. No. Yes?

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]. Are you using [INAUDIBLE] for 3D bar because it's much better than [? Revit? ?]

FRANK PEPPING: For-- you asked for the 3D bar?

AUDIENCE: Yeah.

FRANK PEPPING: Yeah? We use [? Oblong. ?] Yeah.

AUDIENCE: Why [INAUDIBLE]?

FRANK PEPPING: Oblong has more possibilities. And because of these large constructions, I don't think Revit will be enough to do this kind of rebarring. Course, the models are get increasing [INAUDIBLE] high. So that is not manageable.

CEES KRUIT: [? Why-- ?] and the rebar functionality in the Revit 2016 wasn't that well--

FRANK PEPPING: It was a bit poor.

CEES KRUIT: It's better now, but it wasn't that good in Revit 2016.

FRANK PEPPING: Some other questions? Sorry?

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]?

FRANK PEPPING: Sorry?

AUDIENCE: Database standard.

FRANK PEPPING: Database standard?

CEES KRUIT: Micro SQL Express will fit on small, small sizes. Otherwise-- so you can go to the SQL standard.

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]?

FRANK PEPPING: At that time, not.

CEES KRUIT: No.

FRANK PEPPING: No.

CEES KRUIT: It's hard to say.

FRANK PEPPING: [? Because ?] 1192-- yeah. We last year agreed-- certified, so. Other questions? Yes?

AUDIENCE: Is this the locking elevation changing lock? Or is it just the [INAUDIBLE].

FRANK PEPPING: Elevation.

AUDIENCE: So the next question is, what are you using for the big design and [INAUDIBLE]?

FRANK PEPPING: MEP. Revit MEP.

AUDIENCE: OK.

FRANK PEPPING: Yeah. Some others? Good? OK. Well, thank you for being here.

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