Passing the Torch: Champions for Women Supporting Future Generations

SHIR RUSTICI: Hi, everybody. Welcome to our session, Passing the Torch, Champions for Future Women Supporting Future Generations. And I'm here with these incredible women and we're going to hear their stories and learn a little bit about how to become leaders within tech in the AEC industry.

We're going to start off with some introductions. So first, I want to introduce myself. My name is Shir Rustici. That's "Shir," like "shear force," if anyone's looking at the pronunciation, and I am your host for today's session.

Just to give you a little bit of background on who I am, my background is in architecture. But currently, I am the Global Product Manager here at Symetri and work on our technology team to bring innovative solutions to both architects and engineers for Revit, BIM 360, and the Autodesk Construction Cloud.

Today with me on our amazing panel is Shivani, Kim, and Jayna. So Shivani Soni is the Global Head of Impact and Innovation at Symetri, leading efforts in sustainability and digital transformation. She drives impactful growth through Symetri's co-innovation lab, fostering partnerships and using innovation to help businesses succeed globally. Please welcome Shivani to our panel.

SHIVANI SONI: Thank you, Shir. Thank you for the welcome.

SHIR RUSTICI: So next, we have Kimberly Hendrix. She is the VP of Professional Services at Team D3. And Kim started her career in drafting on the first release of AutoCAD. Can you believe that? Well, then she moved through automating design and eventually owning an MFG company.

She sold that company in 2005 and became a consultant to help drive lean data through enterprise engineering and MFG companies. Welcome, Kim.

KIM HENDRIX: Thanks so much. Happy to be here.

SHIR RUSTICI: And lastly, Jayna Vroman is the Manager of PLM services at Team D3, where she leads a skilled team specializing in connected data solutions and system integrations with deep expertise in Fusion Manage. Jayna has risen from a newcomer to a respected mentor, fostering a collaborative environment where her team thrives. She is passionate about helping individuals and teams to optimize workflows, enhance data connectivity, and deliver customized solutions that meet complex client needs.

Jaina's leadership drives both technical excellence and personal growth, empowering her team to succeed in a rapidly evolving industry. It's so great to have you here, Jayna.

JAYNA VROMAN: Thank you so much. It's great to be here.

SHIR RUSTICI: All right. So now that we met these amazing women, let's get started. So the first thing that we want to talk about is technology. And with technology changing so rapidly, and integrating into the AEC and manufacturing workflows, there has been a boom in new titles and roles in AEC and manufacturing firms, from BIM modeler, to design technology director, and now we have CTOs in these firms.

With these new roles that don't hold the same kind of biases as other roles in our industry, that has opened up the ability for women to step into these leadership roles, like yourselves. And so Kim, can you tell us a little bit about how you created a career for yourself in this industry and how technology has been an asset in growing into a leadership position?

KIM HENDRIX: Thanks, Shir. So in my intro, it talks about me starting with AutoCAD in the first release, which I know dates me, which I do that every year. But mostly leaning into the new.

No one knows how to make that faster, or better, smarter. No one knows how to automate that. I would learn it. No one knows how to direct download to a machine on the shop floor. I would figure out that technology.

So leaning into the new technology helped me climb the ladder into a leadership role and a mentorship role. Not being afraid to step into an unfamiliar place. I had somebody tell me a long time ago-- they wanted to send me to a training class and I was like, I'm not sure that's in my field. And this person stopped me, happened to be a woman. She was amazing. Early '80s, again, dating myself.

She stopped me and she was like, never turn down training. Your company is paying for it. But once you take that training, you own it. And so I became [INAUDIBLE] certified, for some unknown reason. But again, it was one of those things that just took me on to that next level of expertise in technology, because I never turned down training at that point.

The other thing is I had an early mentor. His name was Roy Smith. He once told me-- he had me working on an automation project way back in AutoCAD in LISP, if you're old enough to know how to do that. And I went up to his corner office and I was like, this can't be done.

And he was like-- he pats me on the head and he says, it's not that it can't be done. It's just that haven't figured it out yet. And I really took that, and I still use that today. And that was, I hate to say, 30 years ago, maybe more.

And that's been the driving force to my entire career. Can you do it? Yes, you can do it. Now, should you? That's where the management comes in. But can you? You can always figure out a way to do it. You just haven't figured out yet. So that's been the driving force to my career.

JAYNA VROMAN: Let me piggyback on that a little bit, if you're willing to let me, Kim.

KIM HENDRIX: Yeah.

JAYNA VROMAN: I feel like that the absence of bias in these newer roles that are coming out are really great opportunities for women and they provide access to positions that really maybe weren't as easily available before because of the male-dominated industry that we work in. But I feel like, going with the same vein of thought that you're going with, that the capability and capacity to work and quickly learn new software in this industry is a very, very valuable skill that breaks down those barriers and all of those gender biases.

So personally, for my career, my ability to master, train others, consult on and promote the software I currently work in really played a key role into where I am today and where I lead a team of product lifecycle management implementation specialists. I wouldn't be here today if I didn't go and push myself to learn new things and become a master of software.

SHIR RUSTICI: Yeah. So I do see that women tend to raise their hands in a lot of those situations, which, when technology is up and coming and new, it's a great opportunity. And that's what you guys did and that's how you were able to succeed.

So moving on, we do see a lot of trends changing, and adapting, and emerging with this boom in technology. Artificial intelligence, AI and machine learning, is obviously a big one, which is producing new roles and opportunities. However, sustainability is another area where industry is seeing a huge growth and shift, offering a lot of new opportunities as well.

And Shivani, you've built your career around innovation and sustainability. So what inspired your decision to focus on sustainability? And how has specializing in this niche contributed to your success?

SHIVANI SONI: Good question, right? So my decision to focus on sustainability wasn't because I love hugging trees. No, seriously. No, only joking.

Actually, my realization came from quite young, actually. I remember I used to walk with my parents. Or we'll be in the car and we'll see a derelict building, or we'll see homeless people. And I would be like, why are we not doing anything about this?

We should build-- we should design better so that we're not having homeless people. And my parents, perhaps not realizing guys, yeah, very good, as the parents always do, go do it yourself. You want it? You've got to go build it yourself.

I don't think they realized I was that child. You told me? All right, I'm going to take it. No worries. And as I started on this journey. It came to a realization as I entered this construction industry, actually, we play a massive role in actually shaping our future.

And I wanted to be part of that. I wanted to be part of that solution that goes beyond business as usual. And early on, I saw that innovation and sustainability, it's a little bit like Batman and Robin, right? It's working together to tackle environmental challenges but we face particular in the built environment, which is responsible for global emission, a significant amount of emission that we do.

And in your day-to-day business, you don't actually get to challenge it. When I was an architect and I was working as an architectural designer, you were doing to get the job out.

But if you wanted to make that change, it kind of helps me to go, all right. Where can I do that? Where can I push this boundary?

Where can I support and guide others to go you know what? It's not going to be as challenging, but we need to think of something in a different way. We got to look at how technology can actually support us.

So that enables me to go, actually, let's start to specialize in this niche area where we can influence real change through new technology and forward-thinking projects. And it's an exciting space, right? I can geek out.

Yes, I do geek out on things, over new tech. It's easy. It's fun. It's like I'm that person that loves pressing buttons. I don't know what it's doing, but I'm going to press it. I'm going to try to figure it out.

One of my lines that I have with the core team that I work with, break it. Whatever you do, break it, and then come to me, and then let's talk about it and let's figure out that gap. And then let's see what impact we can do with that. What impact we can do to the industry when it comes to reducing our carbon footprint and beyond onto that.

So focusing on sustainability, it actually started to open up doors for me that led to initiatives that started to push boundaries, starting to set new standards, starting to think about things in a different way. That's actually making a lasting difference as well, while working on cutting edge innovation as well. And really, who wouldn't want to do that? If you can make an impact on something that you're actually kind of passionate, who wouldn't want to do that?

SHIR RUSTICI: Yeah. That's incredible to hear. I know-- I think one of the keys that I usually tell people that I'm working with and I'm mentoring with is really find that passion and then that will lead you to your niche in technology, or wherever it is.

So one of the big things that is pretty incredible on this panel is that we actually have somebody who has owned their own business as a woman. And women-owned businesses has been steadily increasing and has seen a 14% rise over the last decade. So, Kim, you have owned your own business, as we learned in your introduction.

Why did you decide to start a business and work for yourself? What was the benefits and how did it fit into your life outside of work? Were you really able to quote, "do everything and have it all?"

KIM HENDRIX: Wow, there's a lot of question in that question. So let me start with I was fortunate and the timing was right for me to buy into a business with a business partner back when we did it. And the best benefit was the hard work you put in. And it is hard work, owning a business.

You know that it's directly affecting your family. And then the realization sets in that it's also directly affecting all of your employees' families as well. And so when I started my company, we had about 25 employees. And when I sold it a decade later, I had 250 employees.

And so that weight was a lot. And so doing everything and having it all was quite interesting. I honestly think that doing it, everything happens, it's a bit of a myth. You can do it. You got to work hard.

So when I started, or bought into my business, I had four-year-old twins, just to set the record straight. And so we had about enough cash to be in business for three months. And so we were lean, right?

So we obviously came out of that and did well. But I would work all day automating software, doing the drafting, helping with sales, and working on getting the business going. And then I would go home at 4:30, 5 o'clock, and I would spend time with the twins. I'd do dinner and I would put them to bed, and I would go back to the shop at 8 o'clock and actually work the shop floor until 2:00 in the morning. And then I would do that.

And I probably did that for four months. So can you have it all? You can, if you don't sleep. You can if you don't sleep. But I was fortunate.

I was fortunate to have a partner in my life. My husband, Duncan, took on more than his share around the house and eventually retired to be a stay at home dad in the later years, as our kids started getting sports and all that stuff. So I was really lucky to have that.

But your work-life balance is super important, even when you own the business to find the right people, like the ladies on this panel that work with you and for you to help garner that load so that you can do it as a team. Yeah. So that-- yeah.

SHIR RUSTICI: That's incredible to hear. And you did mention that you had twins at the time and you are a mother. And as somebody who is looking to start a family, this has always been one of my biggest concerns, being in any industry, is how is that going to affect my career? How is that going to affect the way people treat me?

How is that going to affect my relationships with other people, like my boss, or other people within the company? And both you, Kim and Jayna, both of you have our mothers, which is amazing. But it is still a huge stigma in this male-dominated industry, like the one we're in, that getting pregnant and being a mother kind of might negatively impact your career.

I know that's one of my fears. But Jayna, how has being a mom and the experience you faced, your quote, "motherly instincts," how has that played a role in your work and your leadership abilities?

JAYNA VROMAN: Yeah. So for me, I take a family-first approach to everything. It's going to be my family before the industry. It's going to be my family before outside factors.

But when we translate this to work, it means that I have much more empathy for my team, which fosters a lot of trust. I use my motherly instincts to coach them and coach them well. I can read-- I don't know, sometimes I try not to say it, but I'm like, hmm. When I see my kid make this face, this is what this means. This is how they need to be coached.

And I'm not saying they're kids. But I've learned to read human emotion really well. They've given me a good primer. So I love that.

One thing that is probably a little funny is I probably overuse this analogy. It's something I've found from some scientific studies on children because, of course, scientific studies. I'm going to look at those. I love science. The analogy that kids need fences around playgrounds so they know how far they can go-- how far that they can go in their bounds of play.

But I think it's-- and I use that analogy a lot. I've used it in the workplace and saying, you have to set good guidelines for our teams. How far can they go on their own? How can they be-- how can they go out and thrive, and do well if we don't give them solid guidelines?

So it's funny how much parenting psychology translates to coaching and leadership. So it's kind of like I got some early education in that, that can translate into how I lead. But there's downsides, too like short career reps that make it challenging to get back into industry.

So I really see those that I might be interviewing to bring onto my team a little differently, because deciding to downshift for a while, career-wise, doesn't equate to not having the drive or desire to be here. And that's true, I'm sure, for everybody in this room. We all make trade-offs to make work-life balance work for us. Right, Kim?

KIM HENDRIX: That is so true, Jayna. I also have four children, like you, and the last two being twins. And I lead a team with Team D3 of about 80 people, Jayna actually being one of them. And I lead with a family-first mentality and a work-life balance mentality, which then lets me drive to more out of my people because they are happy and healthy. And I think that comes from that motherly instinct.

There was some stigma early on in my career, as I've dated myself already before. You have young children, so we're not going to send you to this conference or this training, because you can't travel because you have children. I was like, that's my decision to make and not yours.

And so you have to stand up. Sometimes you can't, because you have young children. But you also have to stand up for yourself and be assertive in the fact that it is my choice and my family's decision on whether I can do that or not. That was about the only negatives I had towards that, was travel became an issue for my superiors when I had children. Other than that, I think it's really helped me to be the leader that I feel like I am.

SHIR RUSTICI: Yeah. So I'm hearing a lot of positivity, which is really encouraging. I mean, you've developed these incredible skills when it comes to being able to read people, and empathy that just comes from that life experience. And that's really amazing to hear. And although there are some biases with just being a woman, there is also a lot of other biases.

And many women not only face gender biases and being in a male-dominated industry, but Shivani, you also have the unique experience of dealing with cultural and ethnic biases. And what were some of the challenges you faced as an Indian woman, and how did it empower you to change the status quo?

SHIVANI SONI: Yeah. Being a British-Indian woman in a traditionally male dominated industry certainly can come with its challenges. And yes, there were moments, and there are moments where I feel like you got to work twice as hard to just be heard and to be taken seriously.

And gender bias is one thing, but then adding a cultural and ethnic background to it into the mix often is-- it's being preconceived notion about what I should and shouldn't be capable of. There were times earlier in my career, I know there were, I went through something personally and I remember one of my leaders was just like, oh. So do you have to now stop working because you-- being part of the background and the culture that you're part from?

And I sat there with such confusion. And you have to navigate these solutions-- or situations, sorry, where people expected me to blend in, or to accept, and address, and to be part of what they considered as a norm. And that didn't necessarily align with my values and goals.

But rather than being disheartened by all of this, I saw these challenges as opportunities, and an opportunity to redefine the narrative. It empowered me to stand out rather than to blend in. I don't want to blend in. I'm not a sheep.

That's my standard line, ever since I was a kid in the playground. I ain't a kid. I ain't a kid? Sorry, I ain't a sheep. But I say, people, be a shepherd. Be a shepherd. Be that champion for diversity.

And it's not only in the terms of gender or your ethnic sort of background, but it's the way that we approach problems as well. It's to innovate and to lead as well. And it made me realize that actually changing the status quo, it isn't about fitting into the mold, but it's about reshaping it.

And these experiences have actually helped me to develop resilience and confidence as well. And they've driven my passion. I'm proud of who I am. I'm proud of the background that I have. I'm proud of having that sort of different perspective that I can bring in. And it allows me to create pathways for others who actually face a similar sort of barrier as well.

Ultimately, these challenges have been a source of strength. They've made me more determined to succeed and contribute in creating a more diverse and inclusive-- and a more diverse and inclusive industry, one where everyone actually has a place, regardless of your gender or your background. Actually, every single one of us have a seat at that table, and we have a voice that is allowed to be heard as well.

So you can either look at it as a challenge and accept it, or you can actually look at it as a you know what? You can do something about this. And you can actually showcase others and inspire those that are older and younger that actually all of us have a place on that table as well.

SHIR RUSTICI: Yeah. You gave me goosebumps there, so. But yeah, I mean, I always say that your differences is your superpower. You took something that could have put you down, but you made it the thing that empowered you to become the amazing leader that you are today, which is really incredible.

And even though we don't have-- speaking of what makes us unique, obviously being a woman in our industry is what makes us unique. So even though we don't have numbers of women, specifically in technology in these roles, in AEC manufacturing, we do know that as of 2024, women made up approximately 33% of the entire technology workforce, and that is a huge difference from the number we see in women in just the trades, which is at 4%. And in construction, faring slightly better at 11%.

So I do believe that digital transformation is helping women to not just enter the AEC industry, but grow into these leadership roles. So, Jayna, why do you think digital transformation is an asset to women in AEC and manufacturing?

JAYNA VROMAN: Ooh, it's such an insightful and good question. I like this question so much. So as you mentioned earlier, new technology really has brought forth roles that are significantly less biased. I'm not saying they're not biased. They're less biased.

And it's more challenging for someone to discern your gender or family details from behind a screen. But just a little joke there. But joking aside, women have been pioneers and innovators for years, and years, and years, from probably the beginning of time, contributing to inventions like Wi-Fi, and computers, and computer programming, dishwashers, Kevlar. We've been there at the bleeding edge in numerous scientific discoveries.

And so I know it seems like I'm going a little left field here, but place us in a setting and we'll find valuable insights that need to change. We'll create something new. We'll make profound observations. We have a unique point of view that is just exceptional.

You want us here. So in digital transformation, it involves leveraging digital technologies to drive growth, and business, and efficiencies. And it provides another platform for fostering innovation. So there's another platform. But here, I feel like the playing field is a little more level.

We're walking in a little more level playing field here than maybe we'd have in the past. And drawing from Kim's perspective, and she kind of said this before, we're seeking ways to work smarter, better, more efficiently. And I think that's a mindset of many women.

Why did we create the dishwasher? Why did you-- why did we think of these things? We're thinking about efficiency in our world because we have to do so much with so little. And that's been historically how things have worked. So we're like, ooh, how can I make this better?

How can I have this team work better together? Whether it's leadership or it's technology, we're looking for those insights anyway. So we have this unique perspective that we bring, especially in digital transformation. So really, this is where you should expect to find us at the forefront of change.

So as women in industry, we shouldn't be striving for acceptance here. And to a considerable extent, we're accepted, right? We should be anticipated in places like digital transformation.

SHIVANI SONI: And I just want to jump onto the back of that. I was nodding my head there, yes, you're right, Jayna. You're right. I'm hearing what you're saying.

And it's like, even when you spoke about the dishwasher, I remember when I used to be in the kitchen, just learning to cook and stuff, and it was like-- I used to always say to my mom, I'd say, you know what? To create this innovation thing to make it a lot more easier to cook-- and make cooking a lot more easier for us.

You're multitasking a lot into it, right? But think digital transformation, and both Jayna, you said it, and I think, Shir, you touched on it as well, it's actually a major asset for women in the industry. It shifts the focus from a traditional physically demanding role where actual technical expertise, and problem solving, and innovation takes center stage.

But with solutions such as BIM, and AI, and automation, where women are finding more opportunities to contribute regardless of old limitations in the field, it's actually creating new pathways for leadership roles and where digital skills and strategic thinking are a key. It's increasing a flexibility that comes with remote working and collaboration.

And it's actually helping, I would say, to a certain extent, helping women balance careers and personal life as well. It's making it us easier to grow within the industry. And Jayna, I think you said it as well. In short, digital transformation is leveling up the playing field.

It's actually allowing women to thrive and lead in the AEC industry as well. So I think digital transformation plays a huge part. And challenge it, and accept it, and embrace it, and see what we can do with it. Don't get scared from it for sure.

SHIR RUSTICI: Yeah. I think it's a great opportunity for women to embrace it, like you said. And don't be scared of it. Just dive in. And I feel like we're pretty good at just diving in, and multitasking, and doing these things, which is why it is a great opportunity to rise.

Now we're getting close to the end of our session and I just wanted to ask each of you a question and get a little action item for those watching to take home with them to hopefully be able to make changes in their own personal lives and careers. So Kim, you have helped so many people learn new technologies, and seeing how it has positively impacted their careers, how could others utilize technology for career advancement and where can they learn these skills?

KIM HENDRIX: So honestly, it starts with a desire. We talk about the mold a lot in this class. Several of us, I think, have used that word. But it starts with a desire of that young person to break out of that mold. Once they have that, that desire to break out of the mold and do something different and be bold in their choices, then there are several ways that they can get started.

Obviously, there's colleagues. There's technical colleagues, there's mentors, there's classes, like all the people around Autodesk University teach. There's all those things. You can also be self-taught. I was self-taught, believe it or not, throughout my entire career.

So you can do self-teach. A mentor is a fantastic way to do, and I've mentored I can't tell you how many young people, both women and young men, into positions of technology. But in today's world, the technology at our fingertips is amazing and overwhelming.

And so these kids have had phones in their hands and tablets in their hands, and I know I'm not supposed to say "kids" and my daughter would get mad at me for calling them kids, but I'm probably still going to do it. But they've had so much technology at their hands, it can be overwhelming.

So what I would suggest the most is find a mentor, whether that's a mentor at college, or a mentor in your family, or a mentor outside of your family. Your best friend's mother or father does something, go talk to that person. I've had several people that now actually work in my organization who've called me because they are friends of my children and they know that I'm in this technology field like, how do I break into it? And I was like, you just did by having the desire. So now let's go forward with that. So that's my advice.

SHIR RUSTICI: Wonderful. Now Shivani, you have chosen to build your career around a particular niche that you are very passionate about, sustainability. Actually, you talked about how you figured out that passion when you were a kid. So when people ask, what do you want to be when you grow up when you were a kid, I feel like you already knew that what you wanted to be. So how would you suggest someone find their niche and build their career around it?

SHIVANI SONI: I think yes, Shir, you're actually right. I think I'm probably one of the rare ones. Around about 10, 11, I was like, yeah, this is the industry that I kind of want to go into to make a change. I don't know exactly what, but I knew what that was.

But I think it starts with finding your niche and it starts with identifying what truly excites you, what truly motivates you. For me, it was sustainability. It was for designing better for the people, for everyone that-- our loved ones, the environment. That was what was driving me.

It's the opportunity to make impactful and meaningful change. So I would suggest it's looking at the intersection of what is your personal passion and the industry needs as well. Ask yourself, what problem do I want to solve? Where can I add value?

But most importantly, feel it. Feel it and believe it. You feel it. You feel it here, it's going to help you and it's going to drive you. And once you find that, and I know it's not easy. I've got friends who are still trying to figure it out. And I know it's not easy.

But once you do find it, focus on becoming an expert in that area. And seek that opportunity to learn and connect with like-minded professionals. And don't be afraid to take on challenges that push our boundaries, pushes your boundaries. Building a career around your niche, it takes time. So you're going to have to have patience.

Patience is a virtue. But that time and dedication and when you are passionate about what you do, the journey itself is an incredibly rewarding journey as well. So feel it, believe in it, have patience, and drive it.

SHIR RUSTICI: Yeah. I think for a lot of people-- I know it took me a long time to find what I'm passionate about. So don't be scared to take the time to figure that out. But you're 100% right. That is such an important part of figuring out your niche.

Now lastly, I'm going to turn it to you, Jayna. You have defied the odds. I mean, you're a mother of four, so is Kim, and you have become a leader in your organization leading I don't know exactly how many people, but a lot of people.

I always say that representation does matter so much. So seeing all of you women here leading within your organizations is so powerful. How have the women in your life influenced you and how can others find role models and mentors in their lives?

JAYNA VROMAN: Yeah. I was really, really fortunate, I'd just say from the beginning, kind of like Shivani, maybe my parents didn't know what they were getting themselves into. They really just supported my love of math and science.

They encouraged me. I don't know how many kid's versions of chemistry and physics books I had as a child. Was just always pouring into more and more science and technology and things. But growing up, I had really great role models.

Particularly, I had a lot of aunts who had successful careers in science or engineering. And one of my aunts in particular worked as a quality engineer at Bosch. And she's really one of the people I admire most in my life.

She's probably the tallest five foot six woman that I've ever met. You would never underestimate her. You would never talk down to her. She knew who she was. She knows who she is and she really stands out.

She really gave me the confidence to just go get the things that I wanted in life and to do the things that I was passionate about because the way that she led her life. And so those women, my Aunt Mary and others, really convinced me that if they could conquer calculus, or male-dominated classrooms, or careers, that I could, too.

Really, it led to this success mindedness that I just carried with me. It just empowered me from the very beginning. So I never really had that "you can't." I heard people say those things. And I was like, well, why not?

But then I moved forward a little bit right. Moving from being young and growing, I kept seeking role models, because I knew the power that they had for me. So I often watch videos featuring influential women from business or industry, and wherever I can, I seek out women I can learn from, gain insights from, receive mentorship from and while fostering friendships.

I'm totally going to be talking a lot with Shivani in the future because the goosebumps. This lady has so much passion and want to know more about her, about what she has done. So that's the connections that I continue to build because they're going to teach me another new thing.

And I hope that for myself, as I mature and grow in the field and in my life that I and other women in my daughters' lives, because I have two daughters, that we can really inspire and influence them to look beyond these implied gender norms. These implied gender norms like you can't do these things. My daughters already faced them.

She was doing math in first grade and her-- I'm just only pulling this out because it was the first moment where I had to deal with that, where a teacher had said, or a teacher's assistant had said, oh, well, boys are better at math and girls are better at English.

Another teacher overheard, walked in, and was like, oh, Lydia. Do you have more math facts than anyone else? Just the implied gender norms. We shouldn't be using those anymore. We can move beyond them. And she's already doing that.

But I want these women to be able to inspire them so that we are expected. We're not seen as exceptional or an exception to the norm anymore because we're not. We're not an exception to the rule.

We're meant to be here. We want to be here. It's not because we should or could be here, it's because we want to be here. So I just really hope that we can be those mentors setting the standard for the future of thought that we'll just be expected. It's not like, oh, there's a woman in the room. It'll be like, there's a woman over there. Oh well.

Different thoughts. I'm excited for that. That's what I hope my daughters grow into.

SHIR RUSTICI: Yeah. I mean, I'm really looking forward to one day not walking into every room and firsthand noticing that I'm the only woman in the room, or in a meeting where I know people in other industries, or men don't have that same experience. So I'm really looking forward to that and I can really resonate with what you're saying.

I have a lot of strong women in my life. My dad even always says that he wanted to marry a strong woman, my mother, because he had so many strong women in his family, and that's what he was looking for and that's what he wanted. So even for those who aren't women, the men in the audience know that the people you bring into your life for your children is going to have an impact on their lives as well.

So speaking of mentors, I just want her to leave us off and thank all of you, Kim, Jayna, and Shivani for the amazing contributions that you have made to this discussion. And of course, everyone, please don't be afraid to connect with us. Reach out to us via LinkedIn or other social media platforms. We are all mentors and we love to hear from people and help everyone within the industry.