Storm and Sanitary Analysis for Sewer System Monitoring and Maintenance

PRESENTER: I've had a lot of passions in my life. When I was younger I was wild about horses, and always had to have a dog and a good horse that could run. And I've just always been a very passionate person about something, and always had something in my life I loved. And priorities change. You get married, start another generation. And I love all my kids and my grandkids.

And at work, I have a passion about this. And the reason I do, back in I think it was 2009, we were working on a facilities master plan, and we were using a program that was costing us a lot of money. And my boss wanted me to watch a webinar on StormNet, which was at that time produced by BOSS International. And I watched the web that they had, and it worked very well with Civil 3D, and it did the things that I thought we were going to need for what we were doing with the master plan, and take the place of this other software. But then when it came to the end of the presentation, of course you get to the price. And it was very, very expensive. Just to analyze 10 pipes, I think it was around $75,000.

And I told my boss, I said, if this works this well with Civil 3D, I said, I think we need to wait, because I do believe Autodesk is going to take this program. Because that's what they do, if they find a good third-party program that works well and makes people happy, they acquire it so that you don't have to go out and pay the money to get this.

I don't know if any of you used DCA and other programs like that they bring in and it works. So I told my boss when I got back, I said, wait till I go to Autodesk University. I'm going in about a month, and I'll see what I can find out about that. Came out here, I talked to a couple other guys, and I told them what my situation was. And I said, do you think there's a chance StormNet is going to end up in Civil 3D? And of course they couldn't actually commit to telling me, but I just got a big grin and they said, save your money.

And so I went home and I told my boss that. And so we held off buying the StormNet. And a few months after that, release 2011 came out, and right after that is when they released this Storm and Sanitary Analysis is what they called it when they brought it in. And you had to have a seat of 2011 to load this program. But we were on subscription, so we had that.

And it came in, didn't cost the same money, and it was good-- made me feel good, made the boss feel good. And ever since then, I've just had a passion for it and loved using it. And they've improved it. And I just think it's getting better and better, and I think it's going to continue to do that. And that's where I am with this you know today.

And what I've done on a program we're working on right now for the client, I have mapped their whole sanitary system with this program. And I thought, well, that would be nice to share with some people.

So what we're going to do today is see about creating a model, and possibly picking up a few tips in Civil 3D, and see how to overcome errors that happen when you bring in-- import UI line into SSA, sometimes you get some weird stuff go on. And see what causes that, what we might be able to do to overcome that, and easy ways to manually go ahead and build your systems as you're creating your models.

And this just a little bit about me, which we've already talked about. I don't think you need to see any more of that. But this right here is the area in which the system that we're going to be looking at is laying in. This is our certificated area. And you can see the different-colored areas are municipalities that actually tie into this interceptor. And it creates quite a big line. And they're hoping, later, as you'll see, to actually have these municipalities mapped as well. So we'll have all that information. Using this as a good selling point to them, hey, let's get this done, we can take care of you.

This is a screenshot of the system mapped in Civil 3D. You can see there's a lot of pipes in there. And this is what the model built, right now, in SSA looks like, which we'll get to later in the program.

Right now, let's look at importing data. One of the ways, and the way that I typically do it, I think the easiest way, is we have built this model already in Civil 3D. Every individual pipe run that you put in there, or pipe network, you'll have a data file. Which typically you'll have a spot where you store all your data, as to where, in different drawings, they'll all be mapped to that same place where your data shortcuts are stored. And these are the STM files which you can also open in Hydraflow if you want to. Which, Hydraflow works good. I like SSA better because I think it goes several steps farther as far as the information you can get.

But anyway, this right here, we'll see we're going to import lines from the directory where we have all the storm sewer files stored. That's just, the STM file, we'll grab it like that, bring it into the program. Another way you can do this, this is a pump station that we're tying into, you can bring the actual drawing in-- because it gets pretty complex in some areas-- and actually trace what you've got. Instead of importing the data itself, you have the drawing behind what you're looking at. You can put your junctions in, and then put your links, from pipe to pipe, in. And here we have a lot of valves, the pumps, and everything. So having that drawing behind makes it a lot easier to bring it in. There's a closer look at that same drawing.

We have, over to the side here, this is where we've brought two lines in. When you bring data into your network that you're working with in SSA and you bring a second import in, you're going to get a message, do you want to add this to the existing data, or if not, what is it going to do? It's going to wipe out what you have in there, and you're going to be starting with just what you bring in. And so when you get that message, you want to tell it yes.

What happens when you bring a new line into your existing data? Typically you're going to do it phase by phase. And I would think you'd start at the upstream end, and then coming down, you're putting the next line in. You're going to have a common manhole where they tie together. And when they do this, you're going to have to take one of them out. And you can look at your data here and-- I'm sorry. You can select the link and tell it which manhole that it actually goes from, as you can see in this part of the manhole link configuration box. If you click on the link, it'll expose that box, and you can then modify anything about that link that you want to do. And changing the connection points will connect those lines together to where it will make one line. And you can then delete the manhole that is the duplicate manhole, and you'll get it out of your way.

Right here in our model, we have places where, when we do a set of plans, we'll have a match line. And in doing so, for your labels and everything to come out right, you'll need to have breaks in your pipes so that it gives you the right dimension on that specific sheet. If you're using the QT-- I don't know if any of you use the Quantity Takeoff that is in Civil 3D. And you can do a quantity of each sheet. And in doing so, you'd want to have your pipe networks cut off at every match line. And so you would go into Civil 3D and put a break in your pipe so that you would have that option. Well, when it comes into SSA, you're going to have a link, as you can see, at that point right there. And that's what that file is, right there. And we don't want to take that out.

And here we have-- this happens a lot. You'll have a lot of links coming in. Because they don't know where to go. And in this particular line, we have done slip-lining on all the pipes. So bringing in the STM file, it brings in the pipe as well as the Vylon pipe that has been inserted into the pipe. When it gets to the junction part, it will install two junctions. But it really doesn't understand what it's doing right there. And so you you'll have several links coming to that particular junction.

But it makes the one that needs to go on outfall symbol instead of a junction symbol. And you can usually just delete that. But before you do, you can grab that outfall and just pull it over to the side to make sure that's the one you want to take out. And when you do, all the invalid links will follow it, and the ones that you know are supposed to be there will stay there. And then you'll see a junction symbol under that.

Sometimes you'll just have an outfall that will come in, and just be like what you say in La La Land. And that's what we have right here. And you can go in there and just take that out. And as you can see here, just taking out this invalid link that just was in the way. And you're going to have a lot of that. And it doesn't take long to go through all of them. And typically, if you're taking out the outfall symbols, that's what's going to help you right there.

After you've taken out the invalid links, you can bring the drawing in behind what you're creating in SSA. And you can see that everything now is matching. One single line, that's what we were looking for. We have to install our pumps and our force mains into this. So we bring in a drawing so we can trace over the force mains. And in the pump station, of course we have a lot of different items that we need to take care of. We have channels and storage basins, and like I said, the valves and the pumps themselves. And it just makes it a lot easier if you can bring a drawing in behind what you're dealing with, and can get a better understanding of how you want to lay things out. It gets real, real tricky in the pump station.

This is inserting the pumps. You have to tell it what kind of pump it is and create a pump curve. There are several curves you can use. You can use a [? vendor ?] curve, [? vendor ?] information. What I've done here, the type pump that we put in there, we actually had information from where we had gone out and run a flow test on the pumps themselves, and took that information and made this curve up here. And that data is what is going-- with each individual pump, we have that information going with it.

This right here is just a 3D view. This is our Civil 3D model of that pump station itself, the way we have it installed in there. And that's-- we have the actual building done with Revit, and just using Civil 3D or 3D objects to create the walls and everything themselves, so that we can see what's actually going on there. And if we have to do anything, we can show the contractors, this is what you have to work with, can you do it in the space you have? Also, right here, you can see where the intakes for the pumps are and how they work. So you know how to configure that when you're putting in the information, as far as what invert elevation the pump is-- the influent is coming from, and things such as that.

If you all hadn't picked up by now, I'm very nervous. This is my first time.

[AUDIENCE CHUCKLING]

And I apologize for that. But hopefully before we get through it will get a little bit better. But anyway, I just appreciate your patience with me.

This is just another view showing-- if you have the 3D model that you can bring in, in this particular situation where we're doing the pumps and the layout in there, you can look at it at different angles and understand more of how you want to lay out your links and your junctions, and everything so your model will run correctly.

One thing you want to do I forgot to mention is you bring in your information, which typically, on a system, if you have a large system, you're going to have it in different phases, broken down in that way. And you will bring it in, phase by phase. And after you bring in each part of that model, it's a good idea to run the analysis. And it makes it a lot easier.

You can have a huge model that you've built that, at the end, you hit the analysis button, and it comes up, and it works. And you just think, that's great. Some people kind of do a thing on their desk. I wouldn't know who that is. But I just get excited about things when they work. Because it's very depressing when it comes up and says, well, this didn't work.

But it will give you information as to what made things go wrong, to where you can go through and correct those issues. But there's a lot less errors in that report if you do it phase by phase, and bring it in, and as it gets bigger, and bigger, and bigger. And it's working every time you do it. And of course the pump station, you would know, is a the end. And we want to make sure it works, too, so we're bringing in this information to make things work.

Right here is-- I got ahead of myself-- talking about running the analysis after each phase is brought in. And to the right is where it shows you a list of errors, right here, that says, well, it didn't work, but here's why it didn't work. And you go ahead and correct these situations. And it will finally come up and do this, which is what you're looking for.

This block over here to the right, it will ask you if you want to keep a log file. I always tell it yes, so it's there just in case you need to go back and look at something. I never have done that, as many times as I've told it, yes, to keep this. It's somewhere on the server. But that's a personal thing, if you want to. I always just tell that, OK.

And here's what we end up with. Now, that's a pretty good-sized model. I think we have a little over 700 pipes in there now. And think about how much it would cost you if you're having to pay $75,000 for 10 pipes to run. And we get it for free with SSA, which I think is great. And I get excited about that. I know the boss does.

And now that we've gotten the model built, we need to add our data that we're going to use. You can select the Plan View, and it will show you, after you've ran the analysis-- the analysis worked, but you may have issues with the pipes. There may be areas where you have surcharge pipes, which you can see marked in red there, not necessarily surcharge, but there's a problem with them. But you can click on the Conveyance Link button and you'll get this box right here. And the things marked in red are the things that you're having problems with.

So you can see what you need to address. if the pipe is surcharged, you might need to increase the size of the pipe. If you change the material of the pipe, you'll get a better coefficient, and things run smoother. And depending on the situation, you may just have to add another pipe beside it, and run two pipes.

But this right here at least tells you where you need to go. And it's like, change in diameter or in value, you rerun the analysis, and if you've solved the problem, the red goes away. So it's a very useful tool to let you know what you need to do and how you need to correct what's going on.

The junctions are the same way. If there's a problem with it, you click on the junction that is highlighted in red or blue, and you bring it up, and you can see what the issue is, what you might need to do. Typically it's the pipe coming into it that needs to be adjusted or changed to fix any issues with the junction itself.

Now we're going to configure pipes, putting in the properties and everything that we know exist in the system. And what I have done here, I have a spreadsheet that has-- we have taken the flow data and averaged a month for every meter station, and got the daily average flow, and broke it down to where it would be in gallons per minute. And now we have it where it accumulates in downstream, and enter that information into our system so that we can keep up with what's going on.

Right here shows where we've took the number out of the actual list of flows. We have the average flows on the meter stations, on the left. And then the chart here on the right is where we stuck that number that was actually in volume. And we changed that to-- it was actually in flow. And we changed that to a gallons-per-minute volume number is what we're using to configure our pipes. And this spreadsheet is where we did this, putting the CPS number in here and converting it to GPM, and breaking that down and also having an accumulation column in there as well.

Then we take that number and use it for creating our initial flow that's going to be on each pipe. Which typically would not be necessary, but when you're doing a sanitary or sewer system, it's different than-- if you're used working with storm pipes, you probably can just leave that at zero or whatever. It's kind of an optional thing. But doing sewer system, you do have that constant flow. And it's a good idea-- well, it's pretty much necessary to put what your initial flow is in there so that you have something to compare to when you do have a problem. If you have I&I coming in from somewhere, or analyzing what happens during storm events, see what kind of rainfall I&I you have.

And if you just want to see what's going on on an average daily basis, bringing up a profile or something like that, the flow's not going to show up unless you have the initial flow on each pipe. And that's what that is all about there. The cumulative flow is what you want to use for your initial flow. I'm getting ahead of myself on some of these.

Right here's where I use a spreadsheet. And you don't necessarily have to do this, but just putting the maximum flow and having that listed on every pipe, I've gone ahead and figured that [INAUDIBLE]. There we go. I'm sorry.

And this spreadsheet right here, you put the information in, and it keeps-- of course put your pipe diameter, here's the slope, and it comes up with your Q that you want to put in for your max flow on every pipe. And just like I said, it's not necessary, but it's nice to have it in there, just so that you have this data if somebody is going to run a report or something, you have everything listed in there. And sometimes I get overkill, but that's me. Just the program will do stuff, and I like to do it.

Configuring manholes in the SSA model-- same as configuring the pipe. You just click on the manhole, and it will bring up the manhole configuration. And what you want to do with the manhole is invert elevation and rim elevation. And of course the surcharge elevation of the manhole, or the key point you want to have in there all the time.

And as you can see, I have these-- the Ponded area is something that you really would not be concerned with. In a sewer system, you're usually going to have sealed-top manholes or they're going to be high enough where you're not going to have to worry about that. You're hoping you don't have a ponding situation on a sewer system, but you can typically leave that just at zero.

Meter stations would be the next thing you would want to come up and configure. And it would basically be done in the same manner as you did the manholes. But what's going to be different about the meter station, you have to bring in what your external flow is.

And to do that, you're going to have to-- of course you'll use the information that you're getting on the meter station all the time. But to list that, you're going to have a time pattern that comes along with it as well. And they have standard time patterns in there which kind of go along with the average times a day that you have increased activity or have less activity going on. You can create your own time pattern to go with this. It just depends on your situation if that's something you want to add to there.

This is the package time pattern that comes with the program. And it's one that I usually use for this. And then another thing you can do is verify your information that you have put into your model. And you can bring up your Civil 3D model that you have, you can click on the pipe, and it will bring up the properties. You click on the pipe, you right-click, and it exposes the menu down here in the left corner. And you select Pipe Properties, and it brings up this dialog box which gives you all the information about the pie.

And then in SSA, you do the same thing. Select the pipe, and bring up the information on the pipe, and just compare it and make sure that everything came in the same. Which, in most cases, it will. But if it's a pipe that you manually define, you might have put something backwards. Or it's-- I just like going back and checking things and making sure everything is OK.

After that, there's several ways you can show the information-- clicking on a pipe, showing it in the pipe dialog box. You can run the profile. You can print that out. You can actually create-- if you've done the profile, you can create an animation of that, and you can record an animation. You can have it save to a video file that you can use if you need to send it to somebody.

Typically, when you're doing a sewer system, you understand what's going on when you run a test and everything, you got all the numbers and everything. Your client doesn't want to see these numbers. They want to see a picture of something. So you can shown them a profile, or if you can make a video of what's actually happening, going on, after you have made that profile view. And they can see that level change and different things in this situation where there's a problem in the sewer blows its top, and everything comes out. When they see that, you can say, this is why we got to spend some money here. And they understand that better than giving them a bunch of numbers. But that's where the profiles come in nice, in being able to create the movie.

Here's how you define a profile. You just tell it-- under Output, you pick Profile Plot. You then give it a starting node and an ending node that you want to be showing in the profile. And you'll see it will be highlighted, as it is right here, in the purple. And then you right-click, and the little menu will come up, and you'll see Show Plot. And all of a sudden, your profile shows up on the screen. And it will have all the information with the pipe, what's going on, and you can see where your water level is, where your hydraulic grade line is.

And this is the kind of thing you can show your client and explain to him what's going on. And he will listen to you and look at what you're saying a lot more than he will if you're given him a stack of papers with numbers on it. He's just like, I don't want to look at this, let's go get lunch or something.

But I just think this makes this a lot easier. And it gives you a lot more credibility, I think, too, with the people you're dealing with. It's kind of like if they don't understand the real stuff, you just baffle them with something else. I guess that's the process. But I mean, I like it, anyways. It's what I get excited about, what I'm passionate about. And you people may be the same way.

And I just, I tell you right now, I don't claim to be an expert on any of this. And I'm sure there's people in here that know more than I do about it. But I'm just excited about it, and I like it, and that's why I'm here. This is my first time, and I'm nervous.

[CHUCKLING]

After you've put the profile in, you can select Profile, Plot Options. And here you can adjust colors, and font sizes, and everything so it will display the way you want it. And then you can go back and rerun the profile, and make it look the way you want. Then after you've got everything running the way you want, you can then use that model to take care of situations that different clients might have.

And as for right here, every time it rained, people had water in their yards, and streets were flooded, and they wanted to know what was going on. And the mayor of the city was like, what's wrong with you people? How come there's water coming out of the sewers and everything? And so took a report during a storm event. And right here are the numbers we came up with. We got it from the SCADA that was on there.

And we took that information, and were able to put it into the sewer system, and went meter station by meter station and put this in as an external flow, and had to use a different curve style using a time series instead of the time pattern that we put in under the dry weather situation that was used, just showing the actual data with external flow. This right here, we're showing additional flow coming into it. So we used the flow pattern up at the top, the input, and have to create our own curve using the element.

We can go in and change the elements for our curve that we're going to put in there to match the elements that we have, as far as using volume and time to where you'll have a curve representing the five minutes or so of heavy rainfall. And this is what we have done right here. But you do have to change, like I said, the element on the chart itself, and you have that option.

Right here is one of the places where the meter station was causing problems. Every time we had a rain event, you had the rainfall I&I that was creating problems in the street, in people's yards. And you can see right here, where we ran the model after putting that information in, that the influent pipe from the meter station itself was surcharging, because apparently it's not large enough to handle the additional flow.

And so we came up with that problem right there. We ran it-- you run this profile right here. And when you run the animated profile, it actually shows the hydraulic grade and everything coming up and coming out of the manholes. I had a video of that in here, and I took it out because it ran so slow.

After you've got everything in there and you run the models, you can create reports, and different-style reports, and you can do a custom report. And right here, you've got the ASCII, you can do an Excel. Custom Report Options is what you want to pick if you're doing a customer report. And you get this dialog box to where you pick the items that you want to show up, font styles, you have several different tabs in here where you can go in and fix everything, and then create your custom report, and have it look in the fashion that you want it to and show the information you want it to.

That's pretty much what we have as far as doing the model, when you get to the point where, yes, you have something, and you can create the reports when you run the analysis, and everything is going or not going the way that you want it to, but at least you're getting a working model that works.

But this right here just shows you can find problems easily, from the ground. Of course you see the water coming up. You know there's an issue there. But to find out what's causing the issue, you need something like SSA, where you've got everything defined, and where you can add data, like we did when we had the storm event, and you actually took the SCADA information and put it into the program, and ran, and showed. And it kind of told us what was going on.

But this right here is what happens. This isn't the actual manhole where, at that time of the event, this just happened one time when it had been caught on camera. And I haven't put that in there. I don't know if you noticed, some of the manholes looked kind of deep in the profile, kind of like they were tall or maybe out of whack. And this is why there are some that are really, really high, to be above the flood zone. A sewer line typically is going to be running in the lowest part of land, and it's going to get down and be in your flood zone at the lower end. There's some of these manholes that run through places where people actually have deer stands up on the top, you know, pretty tall. I had a picture of that one. So I thought I'd just [INAUDIBLE]

And right here I'm just showing, regardless of how complex your sewer system might be, if you take it and do it piece by piece, you can always get it together and make it where it will run. And you can figure out what is going on in the endgame.

But that is pretty much what I had in the program. And I really feel like I missed a few things going through there, as far as explaining what's going on. But if there's any questions about something-- I know one thing that I plan on doing that is not in here yet is we have, especially, one city that we're planning on taking over all the maintenance. We're hoping to get that.

I already have their pipe system defined in Civil 3D. And I am planning on putting that-- in tying that in to here. The meter station ties in here now. But I'm going to actually-- the collector system on each lot, I'm going to put a junction, and then use the pattern that comes built in SSA. If you select, it will give you a flow use, based on whether it's a household and the size of the house, whether it's a business or something like that. Which, you can do that, if you do it piece by piece by piece. And just going to make this larger and larger and larger. And I hope all that works. And I hope when I get to doing that, my numbers match up with what's going on at the meter station.

But I really don't have that to show you right now, but I just thought it'd be nice to tell you about it. But that's another part as far as being able to maintain what's going on, and keep modeling. And I just think this program is terrific for doing that. I don't know if any of you all are doing that yourselves. Or is there anybody that uses SSA on a regular basis?

It seems like it just kind of gets pushed aside and not noticed a lot is what I've seen, just like a lot of the functions of Civil 3D. There's people that have that attitude, well, I've always done it this way, why go in and have to do extra steps and do it different from the way I'm doing it? And you try and tell them, well, you do the extra steps just one time, and all of a sudden, everything's out there, and something that takes you two weeks to do, I just did in 20 minutes.

I think that's kind of, if you would get into using SSA, you can actually bring your pipes in and out of Civil 3D now. Just if you notice-- you click on something in Civil 3D, you get the option on your ribbon to open it in SSA, which you click on that, and it brings your whole drawing in to SSA.

AUDIENCE: So you're saying the Civil 3D and the SSA are dynamically linked now?

PRESENTER: Yes.

AUDIENCE: So Dave, first, thanks for the troubleshooting tips you showed at the beginning there, with the multiple [INAUDIBLE] to one junction and stuff like that. That was [INAUDIBLE] for us. And so we're a hydraflow group using storm sewers. And the proper we're having is that that's a linear workflow, where you bring it out one time, you do the adjustments, you put it back in, and then you're done, you can't redo it. Are you finding success with Civil 3D, being able to go in and out of SSA, [INAUDIBLE] as opposed to the linear workflow [INAUDIBLE] provides?

PRESENTER: Yeah, I think it works pretty good going back and forth. I've done it more with storm sewers, doing that. And I'm working on a project right now with storm sewers for the same town that I'm talking about that I have all the sanitary sewers defined in. And to me, it's just very, very helpful. And everything in Civil 3D seems-- the dynamic part of--

AUDIENCE: Is that something that they have in the '18-'19 series? [INAUDIBLE] has it always been that way, that it was dynamically [INAUDIBLE] SSA from Civil 3D?

PRESENTER: I want to say-- I know at least from '17, you could open it up. To be honest, I can't really tell you exactly when it started. I just know that-- I know in '17, you could. And of course you can in '19. It's just-- it comes up. Like I said, if use Hydraflow, you click on it, it just opens, a version of Hydraflow that you can go in and do.

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] SSA to do [? concising ?] and stuff like that [INAUDIBLE]?

PRESENTER: Right. You can use it for-- that function you is in there. And I never have really used it for sizing pumps, because the department I'm in and in work in, we don't really get into that. It's something that I'd like to do, but they say, well, he needs to do that, he's been doing it. And I'm thinking, well, you know, I want to do it.

[CHUCKLING]

I think things will come out better if somebody is really eager and wants to do it, and I'll stay up here while I'm working on it, and stuff. Well, (MOCKING TONE) this is the way we always did. But I just really enjoy-- I love Civil 3D, I love Autodesk. I've been using AutoCAD pretty much since it was born. I mean, I think the first version I used was maybe 1.62. Does that sound right for anybody that's been there a while?

It came on a floppy disk, if you know what that is. And one floppy disk, and you'd put it in the computer and load it, and you could run it. And it's just grown and grown and grown. I think it was in 1984 when [? DCA ?] came out. And you could bring that in and use it. And that's when you first could start defining pipes and everything. And I just thought, man, this is great stuff. And it grew. And when Autodesk acquired it, you could bring it in, and it just kept getting better, and better, and better.

And Land Desktop, it wasn't really dynamic, but when you made changes, it asked you if you want to reimport it. And you'd tell it, yes. And you'd put it back in, and it would say, do you want to take out what's in there? And it would erase what you put it in, and replace it with your new pipes and everything. I just thought that was great. It wasn't dynamic, but it was as dynamic as it got back then.

And then Civil 3D, would just make your changes. And it was just changes everywhere. And I just can't wait to see what's next.

[APPLAUSE]

I appreciate your patience with me. Just to be honest, I have cognitive problems, too, because I have MS, plus being nervous. And I really feel like I let you down as far as my presentation, but I appreciate your patience, appreciate you all sticking with it. The information I left, as far as contact information, I can answer questions and help you with that. And another thing I'd like to do if somebody is interested in contact, is let you have the models that I used. You email me, I can email you back to the files to where you can look at it and see what's going on.

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] available on the internet?

PRESENTER: I can put it on-- right. I was going to put the files themselves available for download. But when I went to upload data, they said that anything we put had to be in a PDF. And so I wasn't able to do that.

But like I said, if you do email me and let me know that you want it, then I will send that back to you so you have some-- you can look at it, you can see what I've done. I have no problem with that. I can just send you the Civil 3D files, which they actually have the other systems in there, like I said, that aren't connected yet. But the drawings in there with the pipes defined, and kind of tell what's going on. I guess thank you.

[SIDE CONVERSATION]